Rename remaining Fate servant tags to their full name

BUR #6839 has been rejected.

create alias saber -> artoria_pendragon_(saber)
create alias saber_lily -> artoria_pendragon_(lily)
create alias saber_alter -> artoria_pendragon_(alter)
create alias lancer_(fate/zero) -> diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(lancer)
create alias diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(fate/grand_order) -> diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(saber)
create alias assassin_(fate/zero) -> hassan_of_the_hundred_faces

A year ago, i made an argument on how i appreciated Fate/Stay Night much more, thanks to the lack of spoilers on Danbooru. Because of that, i suggested to keep the names under spoiler.
I was a fool.
Fate tags are already a mess. Half of these tags got changed to their true names, while others not. It's hard to work around self-imposed limitations with hundreds of character tags.
I will burn down the very foundation of these wretched guidelines, and bring a new age of prosperity! Reject traditions! The future is now!!!

-Leaving Saber Lion as it is due to no other name available for this costume
-Leaving tags like archer_(prisma_illya) like this, because i'm not sure how to tag them otherwise.
-Leaving Lancelot_(fate/zero) as-is at the moment. I think it could be merged with lancelot_(saber)_(fate) and be searched for with a lancelot_(saber)_(fate) fate/zero search.

EDIT: Either artoria_pendragon_(fate) is changed to artoria_pendragon_(fate)_(all), or saber becomes artoria_pendragon_(saber)_(fate). I will leave it to discussion as if this BUR doesn't pass then there's no reason to make the BUR to move all aliases. In the meanwhile i'll put the second option as placeholder.

No to changing Archer_(fate) and Berserker_(Fate/Zero) to spoilery alternatives because their identities are pivotal plot points of those respective works. The others' identities are less important, but these two are just flat out spoilers to the works they originate from due to their plot importance, no matter how F/GO handles them. Not everyone who discovers Fate does so through the gacha game, even now.

Are we opening this can of worms again?

Hard disagree with Archer and Fate/Zero's Berserk (and therefore, Lancelot from FGO).

Independent of the matter of potential spoilers, this is way over-qualifying things. The alias saber -> artoria_pendragon_(saber) might make sense as per the other thread talking about disambiguating saber, but there's absolutely never going to be any artoria_pendragon_(saber) other than the one in the Fate franchise, so that second qualifier is just clunky and unnecessary.

Astolfo said:

[...]

mongirlfan said:

[...]

Removed Archer and Berserker, going to put them in a different BUR.

Shinjidude said:

[...]

Removed qualifiers

BUR #6841 has been rejected.

create alias archer_(fate) -> emiya_(fate/stay_night)
create alias archer_alter_(fate) -> emiya_(alter)_(fate)
create alias berserker_(fate/zero) -> lancelot_(berserker)_(fate)
create alias lancelot_(fate/grand_order) -> lancelot_(saber)_(fate)

See above, voting spoiler/non-spoiler separately.

Username_Hidden said:

Removed qualifiers

It's better, but is there really a good argument for a "_(fate)" suffix on any of these? Particularly, none of the double qualifier ones seem to disambiguate anything. The one for assassin_(fate/zero) -> hassan_of_the_hundred_faces_(fate) is arguably defensible, but I'd counter that we'd never naturally have a competing tag for it either. Even if for some reason the charcter namesake got added here, the true real-world name would be Hassan-i-Sabbah.

Username_Hidden said:

BUR #6839 has been rejected.

create alias saber -> artoria_pendragon_(saber)
create alias saber_lily -> artoria_pendragon_(lily)
create alias saber_alter -> artoria_pendragon_(alter)
create alias lancer_(fate/zero) -> diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(lancer)
create alias diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(fate/grand_order) -> diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(saber)
create alias assassin_(fate/zero) -> hassan_of_the_hundred_faces

Username_Hidden said:

BUR #6841 has been rejected.

create alias archer_(fate) -> emiya_(fate/stay_night)
create alias archer_alter_(fate) -> emiya_(alter)_(fate)
create alias berserker_(fate/zero) -> lancelot_(berserker)_(fate)
create alias lancelot_(fate/grand_order) -> lancelot_(saber)_(fate)

I think we should do them all or none, just half-assing it makes it look dumb.

As usual, BURs containing multiple different highly controversial changes at once never work. If you want to change these tags you have to approach them one by one, otherwise the only thing you'll get is 12 downvotes and 30 days before it's rejected.

Unbreakable said:

I think we should do them all or none, just half-assing it makes it look dumb.

I'm not sure here. I understand that archer etc. shouldn't be aliased here, because these are bigger spoilers than Saber. I would upvote the Saber change to Artoria Pendragon, because even if it were a spoiler, it would get countered by the fact, that it's implied to Artoria Pendragon anyway.
I have no opinion on the others and don't know if they are important spoilers or not, which is why I don't upvote the first BUR.

Archer and Fate/Zero's Berserker are obviously big spoilers in the climax of their respective stories. The Saber to Artoria alias may be a spoiler, but a small one compared to them. I'm not so sure about Fate/Zero's Lancer and Assassin respectively, their true identity doesn't play a big factor in the story if I remember correctly.

Guaro said:

I would upvote the Saber change to Artoria Pendragon, because even if it were a spoiler, it would get countered by the fact, that it's implied to Artoria Pendragon anyway.

Agree with this.

mongirlfan said:

Archer and Fate/Zero's Berserker are obviously big spoilers in the climax of their respective stories. The Saber to Artoria alias may be a spoiler, but a small one compared to them. I'm not so sure about Fate/Zero's Lancer and Assassin respectively, their true identity doesn't play a big factor in the story if I remember correctly.

F/Z Lancer's true name only plays a "relatively mildly noticeable factor" if you actually know about the character's legend before experiencing the Fate story - and even then. Saber's identity is kept a secret because in universe she keeps it a secret from Shirou, the player character in the VN, but it's mostly inconsequential to the story itself also honestly.
F/Z's Assassin is a bit of a spoiler since you initially think Assassin gets murderised by Gilgamesh only to find out later that they're still around because it's Hassan of Hundred Faces so only one persona is dead but it's not that huge a deal.
Berserker's and Archer's are the ones whose true names are big pivotal plot reveals.

nonamethanks said:

As usual, BURs containing multiple different highly controversial changes at once never work. If you want to change these tags you have to approach them one by one, otherwise the only thing you'll get is 12 downvotes and 30 days before it's rejected.

I'm not sure what there is of controversial from the first BUR, i've already removed the major spoiler ones.

Shinjidude said:

It's better, but is there really a good argument for a "_(fate)" suffix on any of these? Particularly, none of the double qualifier ones seem to disambiguate anything. The one for assassin_(fate/zero) -> hassan_of_the_hundred_faces_(fate) is arguably defensible, but I'd counter that we'd never naturally have a competing tag for it either. Even if for some reason the charcter namesake got added here, the true real-world name would be Hassan-i-Sabbah.

There are many hassans in Fate. The only "true" "Hassan-i-Sabbah" should be King Hassan (Fate).

-----

On a different note, what should be done with Female Assassin (Fate/Zero) and Child Assassin (Fate/Zero)?

You're trying to change a BUR with already a dozen votes on it. It's impossible for us to tell whether people agree with the changes, since most people don't change their vote once it's cast, so it's never going to be approved in that state.

Username_Hidden said:

There are many hassans in Fate. The only "true" "Hassan-i-Sabbah" should be King Hassan (Fate).

My point was that hassan_of_the_hundred_faces doesn't need the "_(fate)" qualifier, it's unique enough to not run into anything from another copyright on its own.

I'd propose cleaning things up on all of the requested aliases as below:

BUR #6877 has been rejected.

create alias saber -> artoria_pendragon_(saber)
create alias saber_lily -> artoria_pendragon_(lily)
create alias saber_alter -> artoria_pendragon_(alter)
create alias lancer_(fate/zero) -> diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(lancer)
create alias diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(fate/grand_order) -> diarmuid_ua_duibhne_(saber)
create alias assassin_(fate/zero) -> hassan_of_the_hundred_faces

Shinjidude said:

[snip]

Done

The bulk update request #6877 (forum #195081) has been rejected by @nonamethanks.

The bulk update request #6839 (forum #194846) has been rejected by @nonamethanks.

The bulk update request #6841 (forum #194871) has been rejected by @nonamethanks.