Posted under Tags
BUR #2777 has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.
create alias al_bhed_eyes -> spiral_eyes
More intuitive name. Anyone who is not familiar with Final Fantasy X doesn't have a chance in hell to figure it out and will naturally expect spiral_eyes to be the name.
Previous discussions on this: topic #5850 topic #5877
EDIT: The bulk update request #2777 (forum #167433) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.
Updated by a moderator
There is a significant visual difference IF @_@ was actually tagged correctly.
An excellent example of a true @_@ is post #3723727. Those are not Al-Bhed eyes. They are comically accented squiggly spiral eyes, and visually much different then spirals more integrated into the iris like seen with Al-Bhed eyes.
One key aspect of @_@ eyes I would say is that the spirals are almost always roughly drawn, whereas Al-Bhed eyes are always perfect spirals.
It's a series-specific description for a general tag, so I agree it should be changed.
nonamethanks said:
Is there any visual difference from @_@ that warrants having the two tags separate? They seem to completely overlap. I don't think a "comedic situation" is enough or even possible to tell most times.
In posts like post #3914429 or post #3905233 , the swirly part seems to 'float' in front of the pupil and isn't even the same color as the eye, whereas spiral eyes / Al Bhed eyes have the swirls 'in' the eyes 'normally'. It can be hard to tell, especially with someone like Morikubo Nono who seems to fall on both sides of the line… I suppose we could consider having @_@ imply spiral_eyes if we want to combine them but people want to keep both.
nonamethanks said:
Is there any visual difference from @_@ that warrants having the two tags separate? They seem to completely overlap. I don't think a "comedic situation" is enough or even possible to tell most times.
Also, Al Bhed Eyes tag applies for when a character has natural @_@ or is always like this, not when the character has momentarily @_@ eyes for comic effect, which the @_@ tag is used instead.
lamialover97 said:
Also, Al Bhed Eyes tag applies for when a character has natural @_@ or is always like this, not when the character has momentarily @_@ eyes for comic effect, which the @_@ tag is used instead.
In theory, you're right, but this is also commonly mistagged. For example, @_@ hex_maniac_(pokemon) gives 355 posts for a character which has naturally spiral eyes.
Perhaps Al Bhed Eyes should imply @ @? That way if somebody wants to see only unnaturally spiralled eyes, they can search for @_@ -Al_Bhed_Eyes.
Updated by Obst
I think we should make a renewed effort to separate the tags before we consider merging them. There's some mistags in the other direction as well (clear @_@ posts tagged as al bhed eyes superfluously). Aliasing the name is a good first step, perhaps along with updating the wiki.
feline_lump said:
I think we should make a renewed effort to separate the tags before we consider merging them. There's some mistags in the other direction as well (clear @_@ posts tagged as al bhed eyes superfluously). Aliasing the name is a good first step, perhaps along with updating the wiki.
Having "spiral_eyes" and "@_@" as separate tags at the same time imo it's a pretty bad idea. It's impossible to distinguish them from the name alone. I know I would have to constantly check the wiki to make sure I'm using them properly.
nonamethanks said:
Having "spiral_eyes" and "@_@" as separate tags at the same time imo it's a pretty bad idea. It's impossible to distinguish them from the name alone. I know I would have to constantly check the wiki to make sure I'm using them properly.
I also never understood why the two are separate. It's quite unintuitive to have two different tags for something that's visually indistinguishable, and because you need prior knowledge on a character's lore to get it right it goes against the "tag what you see" policy.
I don't mind the existence of the al bhed/spiral eyes tag but it shouldn't be mutually exclusive with @_@; it would be much more intuitive to have an implication in place so that all instances of @_@ eyes get the @_@ tag. We would lose the ability to search for posts with both al bhed and non al bhed @_@ eyes, but those are likely few and far between and I would be very surprised if there was any real demand for such a search (and even if there is, we could just make a pool for it).
AngryZapdos said:
I also never understood why the two are separate. It's quite unintuitive to have two different tags for something that's visually indistinguishable, and because you need prior knowledge on a character's lore to get it right it goes against the "tag what you see" policy.
I don't mind the existence of the al bhed/spiral eyes tag but it shouldn't be mutually exclusive with @_@; it would be much more intuitive to have an implication in place so that all instances of @_@ eyes get the @_@ tag. We would lose the ability to search for posts with both al bhed and non al bhed @_@ eyes, but those are likely few and far between and I would be very surprised if there was any real demand for such a search (and even if there is, we could just make a pool for it).
Yeah, it would be far better to have a tag for all spiral-shaped eyes with a secondary implicating tag if there's no iris (since that seems to be the rarer case), rather than trying to set a distinction that 99.99% of the site uploaders will never know of or care for.
al bhed eyes exists in the first place to avoid having any sort of relationship with @_@, which is a facial expression tag. The tags may seem interchangeable due to mistags and lack of clarity, but the likes of post #1423930 or post #2489042 clearly aren't facial expressions and would dilute @_@.
I think it's easy enough to remember that emoticon tags like @_@ are generally facial expressions, while descriptive tags are more likely to be design features. I'm not sure whether this explanation is adequate for most uploaders, though. I don't think it's explained directly.
The bulk update request #2777 (forum #167433) has been approved by @Hillside_Moose.
Went ahead and approved the alias. If tag usage still doesn't improve, we may have to alias spiral_eyes to @_@ regardless.
BUR #3184 has been rejected.
mass update hex_maniac_(pokemon) -> hex_maniac_(pokemon) spiral_eyes
The character has natural spiral eyes instead of comic effect @_@ eyes, but still there's a lot of posts misstagging it.
Updated: to just add spiral_eyes to the posts that is missing the tag.
EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.
EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.
EDIT: The bulk update request #3184 (forum #170648) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
Updated by a moderator
mongirlfan said:
BUR #3184 has been rejected.
mass update hex_maniac_(pokemon) -> hex_maniac_(pokemon) spiral_eyes
The character has natural spiral eyes instead of comic effect @_@ eyes, but still there's a lot of posts misstagging it.
What about posts like post #2939977 or post #1534684? Those very much look emotionally-induced to me.
nonamethanks said:
What about posts like post #2939977 or post #1534684? Those very much look emotionally-induced to me.
Yeah, they could be the case for @_@, but I think they would need the spiral eyes tag too due to the character's nature. I could make a search and add the spiral eyes tag for posts in this search: hex_maniac_(pokemon) @_@ -spiral_eyes, to prevent possible false positives, but it would take a while, hence why I did requested the mass update instead
nonamethanks said:
And now we return to the start of the thread: why should these two tags be separate if we have to rely on character canon and outside knowledge to tag a purely visual aspect?
More importantly, is this even something that most people want separated? I'd be willing to bet that a large portion of users searching for @_@ don't particularly care if the eye spirals are canon or not (I know I don't). Creating a "spiral_eyes -> @_@" implication still lets users search for naturally spiralled eyes while at the same time allowing them to search for all posts where a character's eyes are spirals, regardless of canon.
I don't particularly see the use in even having a tag to distinguish when spiral eyes are canon, but the response this thread received has shown that other people do. As such, to avoid any confusion in regards to what al_bhed_eyes/spiral_eyes is for, it really ought to be renamed to something that's actually intuitive. al_bhed_eyes meant nothing to anyone unfamiliar with Final Fantasy X and spiral_eyes is easily misunderstood as it is synonymous with @_@, but naturally_spiralled_eyes or natural_spiral_eyes is fairly blatant and describes exactly how the tag should be used, even to users unfamiliar with tagging spiralled eyes.
