Danbooru

Ayakashi Triangle and genderswap

Posted under General

Currently, Kazamaki_Matsuri is a single tag, with posts of her female form tagged as genderswap_(mtf). I think that instead it should be two separate tags: kazamaki_matsuri_(male) and kazamaki_matsuri_(female), and that the genderswap tag should be left out.
This is because genderswap should technically be used only for fan genderswaps rather than canonical ones (it is in the Artistic License tag group after all). What is the history on this issue? What other canonical genderswaps are there and how were they tagged? Kashimashi and Ranma_1/2 are the only one that comes to mind, the former doesn't use genderswap, while the latter has a separate tag for female Ranma, yet is ocassionaly tagged as genderswap.

nonamethanks said:

The genderswap tag should only be used when the genderswap is non-canonical or is not a predominant part of the series, basically. Think "this character is genderswapped for one episode and never mentioned again".

From where did you get such definition?
The genderswap tag was always used for every single instance of genderswap in anime/manga, regardless how often it's been used and according to the very first and major danbooru rule "tag what you're seeing". The only exception from it's when the there was no or almost none of canon presence of their pre-genderswapped persona, for example osaragi_hazumu from Kashimashi or mai_natsume from Blazblue (and even these were/are debatable).
For the rest of canon genderswaps they're always tagged with the best example is Ranma where you have ca 32 pages of ranma-chan genderswap_(mtf) contrary to 35 pages of simple ranma-chan tag. Also many others like yuusaki_riko, senou_natsuru, tailred probably some minor I don't even remember with kazamaki_matsuri being the most recent one.

Which all of them you've technically nuked by your previous statement done as the admin of this site.

nonamethanks said:

Check the tagging histories. Some random user deciding to mass tag genderswap on hundreds of posts (such as with Ranma) does not make site policy. See also topic #21636.

What the hell are you talking about? Which random user? I don't care about the implications of the names, I'm talking about genderswap tag which many people has been using this tag in such manner from years and before you've even joined this site - and suddenly now you've irrationally nuking the tag without a word of explanation??

I'm asking again and demand explanation - from where did you get the notion that, quote, "the genderswap tag should only be used when the genderswap is non-canonical or is not a predominant part of the series"?

richie said:

What the hell are you talking about? Which random user? I don't care about the implications of the names, I'm talking about genderswap tag which many people has been using this tag in such manner from years and before you've even joined this site - and suddenly now you've irrationally nuking the tag without a word of explanation??

I'm asking again and demand explanation - from where did you get the notion that, quote, "the genderswap tag should only be used when the genderswap is non-canonical or is not a predominant part of the series"?

Having a character that is always a genderswap, and is the focus of a series, tagged as genderswap pollutes the tag and makes searching for actual genderswap of said character impossible. Try finding male ranma-chan using a two-tag search. We have to keep two subtags for genderswap just to have any hope of finding them because retards keep tagging canonically instead of using the tag system properly. Even using ranma-chan genderswap_(ftm) only finds one picture. Do you also tag a character who canonically wears a wig as wig in every single picture?

As for the age of the edits, just because some idiot has been mass adding the wrong tag to posts for years it doesn't make it right.

Updated

nonamethanks said:

Having a character that is always a genderswap, and is the focus of a series, tagged as genderswap pollutes the tag and makes searching for actual genderswap of said character impossible.

This is absurd and simply not true. Apart from the fact of how miniscule number of such cases exist...

Try finding male ranma-chan using a two-tag search.

ranma-chan genderswap_(ftm) what have I won?
And btw, while we are at it - maybe you explain to me how do I find any new genderswap (defined by you) pictures with charas who unfortunately are or became canon?

We have to keep two subtags for genderswap just to have any hope of finding them

...and? Maybe because that's exactly what they exist for?

because retards keep tagging canonically instead of using the tag system properly.

Except taggin canonically is and always has been a correct usage. Since the times before you've even come to this site, my dear admin sir.

Even using ranma-chan genderswap_(ftm) only finds one picture.

How about populating the tag with the few other instances instead ruining the correct usage of the properly populated one?

Do you also tag a character who canonically wears a wig as wig in every single picture?

Do you nuke glasses on characters who wear them cannonicaly?

Read my lips: TAG WHAT YOU CAN SEE first.
And genderswaps are what you see, and you tag them as such - regardless if they are canon or not.

As for the age of the edits, just because some idiot has been mass adding the wrong tag to posts for years it doesn't make it right

I don't care about a mystical one "idiot", the genderswap tag has been populated correctly as such since the begining of this site by MANY DIFFERENT USERS. It's you who are now arbitrarly making up and enforcing new unclear and biased definition - because "not a predominant part of the series" is an utterly questionable merit.

Updated

Almost half of the posts under ranma-chan had the tag added by the same four people, including user #333214, which I would definitely call an idiot, so it's not exactly mystical. You seem to be completely incapable of browsing the site in order to find this information though, and completely oblivious of how tagging works despite having an account from 15 years ago.

Your whining was awfully familiar, and looking at your posting history, topic #14674 is what I was remembering it from. Four years have passed since that thread, and your petulant crying and propension to immediately namecall anyone who disagrees with you didn't change one bit, so I'm going to assume there's no point in continuing this argument any further.

I'm still waiting and demanding answers:

- from where did you get such definition, quote "the genderswap tag should only be used when the genderswap is non-canonical or is not a predominant part of the series"
- how do I find any new genderswap (defined by you) pictures with charas who unfortunately are or happened to became canon?
- do you nuke anything other items with/on characters who wear them cannonicaly?
- how do you realisticaly expect to enforce the rule about "predominant part"?

Until I get the answers I'll consider your behaviour as classical abuse of your position and priviledges here.

You're taking a needlessly aggressive tone here. You don't get to play the mod abuse card or the "I've been here longer than you" card because someone doesn't give you the answer you want immediately.

Genderswap is an artistic license tag. It's in the same category as other tags like alternate hairstyle, alternate costume, kemonomimi mode, bespectacled, older, younger, etc. All these tags are about fanmade or unofficial differences from the character's normal canon appearance. Genderswap is in the same category, which implies it should be used in the same way.

The question of whether genderswap should include canon genderswaps has been brought up many times before: topic #2636, topic #3003, topic #9818, topic #11123, topic #11614, topic #14515, topic #15611, topic #16498. Many different users have argued it shouldn't include canon genderswaps. The reason being that it's surprising when certain characters are tagged as genderswap even though they're basically always presented in female form and the male version is either hardly ever shown or is treated as a separate persona. The solution we've more or less converged on is to create dedicated male and female tags for characters with two canonical forms and to reserve genderswap for noncanon genderswaps.

Was my first answer in this thread also needlessly aggresive?
If I became aggresive later then it's only because something triggered my bulls**tmeter out of scale - in this case it's the answer claiming that "it's all cleaning of mess done by one user"

Now, ad rem.

genderswap wiki clearly doesn't say a thing about "how tag should only be used when the genderswap is non-canonical or is not a predominant part of the series". You can't deny there is quite a few titles, and there will be others in the future with genderswapped personas as more or less integral part of the story. Debating every single time "is it enough to include/delete" genderswap tag is a path which leads to nowhere. Especially considering the fact that the solution you're talking about (creating extra names for canon genderswapped personas) doesn't solve anything - because you won't be able to search and find them through genderswap tag anymore. And not being able to find in such way, for example ranma, the staple of genderswap comedy is nonsense. You will have the tag polluted and you will have an endless disputes without clear resolution of them.

Therefore here is my proposition: let's create new genderswap_(original) tag. This one should be only used strictly with non-canonical genderswaps, period. And belong to artistic_license tag group.
As for current genderswap tag I suggest remove it from artistic_license group and place it in wiki in similar way as injury (under Body tag groups list).
The new genderswap_(original) tag probably will implicate genderswap one.
This should make situation clear and easy to maintain.

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