Another I've found:
music_video > flash
because, you know... they're all flash animations.
Posted under General
Another I've found:
music_video > flash
because, you know... they're all flash animations.
If you're implicating memes to sources then there's also
take_it_home > higurashi no naku koro ni
ga_rune_pose > galaxy_angel_rune
kono_lolicon_domome > backbeard or beako or
gegege_no_kitarou
caramelldansen > popotan
etc..
Personally, I think attribution via wiki would be better than an implication in some if not most cases, e.g. imagine the pollution in the Popootan tag?
From my own misgivings and the recent direction of discussion, I'm agreeing more with the argument to keep it in the wiki and not to implicate.
I've gone back and reversed the four implications I already made (just as planned, uso da, yukkuri, UBW) since I can just add them back if we do decide to implicate after all. But for now, I'm not convinced we should do these.
After some more thinking, I came to a conclusion that yukkuri and oyome_ni_shinasai shouldn't actually imply touhou, even if we decide to go with implication. The difference is that they aren't parodies *of* touhou, they're original works that were spawned in the touhou fandom.
As for the gununu flood argument, you could reverse it and ask why exactly would you not want them returned? If I'm searching for pics of "that Ichigo Mashimaro parody", I shouldn't be required to know that gununu has a specific name, because it is a specific subset of the more general class of Ichigo Mashimaro parodies. Thus all gununu pics should've already been tagged as such.
Lastly, re: whether or not to implicate parody, it could be solved with a mass edit on "tag -copyright" -> "+copyright +parody", but that wouldn't kick in automatically in the future. For that we'd need n-to-m implications support, not just 1-to-m like today, a thing which I believe has been proposed in the past.
If you're searching for pics of "that Ichigo Mashimaro parody", you should first be trying to figure out what it's called. That can be done by visiting the ichigo mashimaro wiki, which should link to gununu, saying it was a meme spawned by the series.
In fact, gununu is kind of an extreme example in that there are a double-digit percentage as many posts involving the meme as there are posts involving the parent series. Most memes would be pretty difficult to find just by sifting through posts tagged with the name of the series.
Updated by 0xCCBA696
葉月 said: If I'm searching for pics of "that Ichigo Mashimaro parody", I shouldn't be required to know that gununu has a specific name, because it is a specific subset of the more general class of Ichigo Mashimaro parodies.
I'd actually heard of gununu and seen a number of them before I knew it was an IM parody. I'm probably not the only one.
And if we implicated it, then fully a third of all ichigo_mashimaro images on the site would actually be gununus from other series. That's definitely a problem, and a much higher percentage than with most parodies. But it's definitely worst with popotan/caramelldansen, where the latter would be two thirds of all popotan images if implicated. We have many more caramelldansen images than images from the series that spawned it.
So, generally, you either have too much meme tag diluting or flat out dominating the copyright, or so few meme tags that you'd have a hell of a time finding them mixed in with the larger copyright tag. (Good luck stumbling upon, and noticing the tag for, one of the 70 take_it_home images in 4000 higurashi uploads! Wiki is the best solution.)
We should be careful here to distinguish parodies of copyrights from parodies spawned by their fandoms. Gununu is an example of the former, yukkuri_shiteitte_ne and caramelldansen are the latter. Thus caramelldansen should not implicate popotan. If you don't keep this distinction in mind, then thread suggestion indeed becomes dangerously complex. Also, there's nothing stopping you from searching for ichigo_mashimaro -gununu. It is an IM parody, so it should be tagged as such.
The distinction doesn't seem so clear.
Caramelldansen originated with a short animated dance in the Popotan game OP [Edit: see post #29808 - the original].
Gununu originated with a short animated scene of Ana grumbling.
Both were pulled as-is from their original sources, redrawn with new characters, and became memes. In fact, they're very, very similar.
jxh2154 said:
Both were pulled as-is from their original sources, redrawn with new characters, and became memes. In fact, they're very, very similar.
Nope. The scene made its rounds on the net as a gif way before it was associated with the swedish pop song, and was just a cute little snippet taken out of the anime (you can see it, for example, in http://www.4chan.org/flash?file=MegaSlotsv1.0.swf&title=Megaslots+v1.0&w=600&h=400 , where it's used with a totally different music and in no way related to caramelldansen). Caramelldansen came into picture much later and has taken a life on its own, at which point it transformed into something different that's only tangentially related to popotan, much in the way yukkuris did. Gununu, OTOH, is a direct parody of IM's art style and is immediately recognisable as such.
Caramelldansen is the song, yes, but as the wiki states, the tag caramelldansen refers to the dance. This is, after all, primarily an image repository site.
葉月 said: Nope. The scene made its rounds on the net as a gif way before it was associated with the swedish pop song, and was just a cute little snippet taken out of the anime
I know the origins of the meme very well, but that's not the point. The song isn't what we're tagging (as you would of course agree, after all, a song isn't a visual element), we're tagging the dance/pose.
The dance move that has been taken practically frame for frame from the game (not anime) OP, and had other characters inserted in doing that dance. This is, for tagging purposes, the same thing as the gununu situation, where a frame of animation was taken and had other characters inserted into it making that facial expression.
Caramelldansen is the tag used to identify it because that's what popularized it (including in thousands of still and gif images that never play a single note of the song), and for lack of a better tag to use it stuck. Alternately you could change it to "popotan_dance" but why? It's well established as is.
If you want to focus on the song as the meme, then you have to tag the song, and thus you have to remove it from every caramelldansen upload that isn't a flash. This would be destructive and counterproductive though. Note, this seems to have been the approach taken for loituma, and I think that tag is all the poorer for it. There are so many spinning object images parodying that song('s Bleach parody flash) that don't seem to have a tag pulling them all together.
Anyway, gununu is not notably more "direct" than caramelldansen. All memes go through a third party fan filter before being solidified.
Updated by jxh2154
I think it's a bad idea to implicate these phenomena to the copyrights that spawned them.
People who don't know about these memes (which I bet makes up most of a copyright's fanbase) will be puzzled by the flood of images that, to them, seem to have no relation to what they are searching for. Until they learn of the meme through the wiki, in which case they might be irked (I know I would be).
On the other hand, those who know of the meme (and are probably be the only ones searching for it) will almost certainly know what it is called. If they don't, I think the little effort required to figure it out (through the tags/wiki) should fall on them as the (assumed) minority of the fanbase.
It's prolly already bee siggested, but why not make an "Associated Memes and Parodies" section for each series's (and perhaps character's/characters') related memes? Heck, maybe add a meme section macro to the wiki editor. *is still not all that up on how everything here works*
While on the subject of these things, from where does "final_fantasy_pose" originate? They're the only pics in the "final_fantasy_* -final_fantasy" search that I don't slap the FF tag on.
Oh, and
objection to gyakuten_saiban
(with a possible edit to "objection!"?)
Updated by NeverGonnaGive
T5J8F8 said: It's prolly already bee siggested, but why not make an "Associated Memes and Parodies" section for each series's (and perhaps character's/characters') related memes?
These things tend to get covered in the wiki already, but emphasizing them with their own header isn't a bad idea.