maybe foxy lady (fate/grand order), to avoid something like topic #17760?
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maybe foxy lady (fate/grand order), to avoid something like topic #17760?
I think we had a discussion about turning a similar tag, dangerous beast, into both a character tag and have it implicate Mash. I think it stalled out and went nowhere.
The FGO wiki has a large list of all the Craft Essence tags (which are essentially costume tags) and whatnot.
Would you want me to drum up a mega-BUR of all the character-specific ones to change them into things like osakabe-hime_(foxy_lady)_(fate)?
I say character-specific because there are some, like heroic spirit traveling outfit and lostroom outfit (fate) that are costume series. Those could be left as gen tags, qualified or not, or they could be BUR'd into a fuckton of osakabe-hime_(heroic spirit traveling outfit)_(fate) tags.
nonamethanks said:
It should be a character tag, no way foxy lady is not ambiguous, especially as a gentag.
It's really tiresome to see this proliferation of random gentags when every other copyright follows the standards without issue. What is it that makes fate/grand order so stupid?
It's an artifact from the older 'system' when only actual characters get chartags, while craft essences get tagged as gentags because they aren't actual characters.
Back when, well, people are more conservative with regard to chartags for fear of added noise during chartags: X searches and splitting up cosplay tags. And clogging up autocomplete lists.
And yes, recently I got pissed off with all the Tamamos getting in my way of tagging Tamamo_Cross_(Umamusume). Though maybe the main problem lies in the autocomplete system and not necessarily the tag nomenclature. Type Tamamo_Cr, hit TAB, and stupid autocomplete lag decides to autocomplete into a Fate chartag. Unless I wait like 2-4 seconds, or do funky things like spacebar -> backspace -> o (to force autocomplete to update), at which point I might as well just type out the whole name.
I'm don't know anything about how the backend of the autocomplete works, but it seems like the lag gets worse the more letters I have to type for disambiguation [3-5 letter autocompletes are still fast and responsive], and the proliferation of Gacha skintags have resulted me needing to type longer and longer entries, so almost always whenever the problem occurs for me, a gacha skin tag (or one of its multiple aliases) is involved.
It's my main PAIN POINT starting this year when tagging. Wasn't a problem back then. This has caused me to waste much more time when tagging. Of course, again, it could be a problem with how the autocomplete is coded, or the server infrastructure, or idiosyncrasies with my network connection, or CoViD causing people to stay home more and stressing networks all over the world, but from my PoV the only thing I can blame are the gacha skintags. Because that's the only thing that is staring at me right in the face.
And by Gacha I mean the Chinese Gachas (and Fate but most of the Fate ones are legitimately independent characters), because the Japanese Gachas like Kancolle/Granblue/Umamusume don't have this problem despite having multiple unique outfits that are even harder to search. Same goes for some of the older non-gacha anime copyrights like the Nanoha series, where the characters even have specific named uniforms. And outfit gentags are even less well-tagged for older posts, further exacerbating this issue. Searching for something like Impulse Form!Fate Testarossa or CoLA Popehat Remilia is much harder than Cocktail Dress!Taihou.
Though, that aside, if the other Fate craft essences get their own chartag then foxy_lady probably should get its own too. For consistency. Some of the others also used to be gentags.
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NNescio said:
It's an artifact from the older 'system' when only actual characters get chartags, while craft essences get tagged as gentags because they aren't actual characters.
Back when, well, people are more conservative with regard to chartags for fear of added noise during
chartags: Xsearches and splitting up cosplay tags. And clogging up autocomplete lists.
To be fair, the "alternate costume = chartag" has been a thing thanks to FGO, and how they threat alternate characters.
I would personally prefer either make alternate costumes (not characters) gentags, like cosplay tags, or make a new tag category for costumes or w/e.
Remember that we have official alternate costume.
Provence said:
Remember that we have official alternate costume.
alternate costume and official alternate costume are a completely different mess that has never gotten sorted out
Mexiguy said:
alternate costume and official alternate costume are a completely different mess that has never gotten sorted out
True, but it also isn't.
It would be a huge step forward to just nuke the various costume tags and go with less tags.
Provence said:
True, but it also isn't.
It would be a huge step forward to just nuke the various costume tags and go with less tags.
These character tags are extremely popular, so much more than official_alternate_costume. They're not going anywhere whether we like it or not.
To put it into perspective, official alternate costume was searched 1.6k times in the last 7 days. These are the top artoria character searches, by comparison (some entries appear twice because of spaces).
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Provence said:
Remember that we have official alternate costume.
official alternate costume won't really help when a character has 5+ costumes, and those costumes have 500 artworks each.
Plus evazion said he'd rather not have a situation like kancolle.
nonamethanks said:
To put it into perspective, official alternate costume was searched 1.6k times in the last 7 days. These are the top artoria character searches, by comparison (some entries appear twice because of spaces).
I agree with you, but using artoria as example is bad, because her various forms are basically different characters most of the time. Using an AL character would bring the point home much better.
nonamethanks said:
These character tags are extremely popular, so much more than official_alternate_costume. They're not going anywhere whether we like it or not.
To put it into perspective, official alternate costume was searched 1.6k times in the last 7 days. These are the top artoria character searches, by comparison (some entries appear twice because of spaces).
Probably because nobody knows which costume belongs to which tag....
But at closer inspection, it's very clear that these tags get created willy-nilly. That means despite having precedent with other tags, these tags just get put into a random tagging category, and which no qualifier, so you can't even really sort this mess and tags get missed easily.
But no matter how you do it, these tags do get created by users and no tagging system in the world can help here.
Only thing one can do is create an awareness where this tags belong to and how they need to be tagged.
More like the only thing we can do is force changes and discussions be damned. It's clear by looking at the past four years of useless discussions that unless changes are forced, the situation is never going to change because everyone wants their pet tag to be more special than all the rest.
Every time a f/go tag is subject of changes there's no less than ten pages of people arguing why chartags are a worse place than hell for tags to be in, or why a costume should not be implicated to its main tag because technically whichever coomer designed it decided that it's a separate character despite having the exact same face, name and body.
And it gets even funnier when people start coming up with wild outlandish ideas specifically designed around f/go that only apply to that franchise, that will never get implemented but only serve to drive the stake further into the rotting corpse of the topic.
Let's face it, these threads are a circus, and we're the clowns.
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At this point I don't really care anymore whatever way Fate tagging goes and it's clear that costume and variant tags are here to stay, but at the very least the position I maintain is that the absolute vast majority of catch-all tags, save the very egregious cases like Artoria I guess, should be done away with. Characters like Mordred, Medb or BB have absolutely no business having an _(all) tag.
Username_Hidden said:
official alternate costume won't really help when a character has 5+ costumes, and those costumes have 500 artworks each.
Plus evazion said he'd rather not have a situation like kancolle.I agree with you, but using artoria as example is bad, because her various forms are basically different characters most of the time. Using an AL character would bring the point home much better.
I'm 'fine' with the Artorias and Saberfaces. Technically different characters most of the time. I can begrudgingly accept some of the AzLane tags, if they're popular enough.
But something like Croissant_(Seven_Am)_(arknights) is just complete horsecrap that clogs up the autocomplete list and trips up people trying to tag actual croissants. (Or that... Food Fantasy character.)
topic #17377 and the like is what led to this... malignancy.
Skintags should be created on an as-needed policy, and not be systematically 'auto'-generated every single time a gacha has a named skin (especially when the official English name isn't out yet, leading to yet another alias down the road for a <10 post tag), because this just lead to sprawling chartags all over the place. Gachas already have enough characters without needing to multiply them by three to six times.
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Provence said:
True, but it also isn't.
It would be a huge step forward to just nuke the various costume tags and go with less tags.
It would be the biggest step backwards in history. It would do so much more harm than good.
nonamethanks said:
Let's face it, these threads are a circus, and we're the clowns.
Not even the good kind of clowns, just the sad and boring kind.
I participated in this thread, without having touched however many previous threads exist trying to fix this mess, because I refuse to read 20 pages of thousand word essays explaining why we absolutely cannot rename Saber despite the dozens of reasons against keeping it named that. I'm honestly surprised we somehow managed to fix the Apocrypha character tag names.
Frankly, the only way to fix this mess is if evazion powers through the BURs and approves them no matter the downvotes. Gotta turn off the benevolent part of "benevolent dictator" or it's never going to end. But I think he's burned out after all the endless discussions and back-and-forths, and I can't really blame him.
I just noticed that Archer alter and Emiya alter both still don't have qualifiers. After searching for them in the forums it doesn't seem like it was intentional, so were they just missed?
Edit: Same with emotional_engine_-_full_drive
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