Danbooru

Imply Alter Swimsuit Okita Souji -> Okita Souji (all)

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Benit149

BUR #6971 has been rejected.

create implication okita_souji_(alter_swimsuit_saber)_(fate) -> okita_souji_(fate)_(all)

Another Okita Souji/Saberface to add to the umbrella tag. Don’t know if nuking the _(all) qualifier would be desired since similar tags were cleaned of theirs.

Would Rengoku be considered another variant to add to the request, or is she treated as a separate character?

I’m also wondering if we need to make a catchall tag for Leonardo Da Vinci since she now has her Caster, Rider, and Swimsuit Ruler variants.

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Benit149

blindVigil said:

I thought we got rid of all the (all) qualifiers

Apparently some still haven’t been changed. A quick *_(fate)_(all) search got me these characters that need to be updated:

Ishtar
Oda Nobunaga
Medb
Scathach
Okita Souji
Elizabeth Bathory
Jeanne D’Arc

Only these characters have the (all) tag cleaned up:

Cu Chulainn
Tamamo no Mae
Mordred
Nero Claudius
BB

Of them all, only BB, Mordred and Medb have two variants, which I believe we wanted to nuke the implication but never got around to it. The discussion got so messy that I opted not to butt in any further, fearing I’d make the situation worse like what happened last year.

Of course if a Leonardo Da Vinci catchall tag is made, the variants would be implied to Leonardo Da Vinci (Fate), without the (all) clause.

(Sorry, typing CSS code on an IPad isn’t easy.)

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evazion

We're trying to avoid and get rid of _(all) tags as much as possible.

We should have something like this:

or just this:

The reason is that _(all) tags are confusing and ugly. At first glance it sounds like the current Okita Souji (Fate) tag is "the catch-all tag for Okita Souji from Fate", when in reality it's "the version of Okita Souji specifically from Koha-Ace, now in FGO, not to be confused with other versions of Okita Souji from Fate".

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Benit149

I’ll cancel my request then so that the renames can happen before the implication. I agree with the first set of tags since it’s a lot clearer that vanilla Okita refers to the one from Koha-Ace.

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Astolfo

evazion said:

We're trying to avoid and get rid of _(all) tags as much as possible.

[...]

The reason is that _(all) tags are confusing and ugly. At first glance it sounds like the current Okita Souji (Fate) tag is "the catch-all tag for Okita Souji from Fate", when in reality it's "the version of Okita Souji specifically from Koha-Ace, now in FGO, not to be confused with other versions of Okita Souji from Fate".

Unfortunately while I would support linear implications in 99% of cases, I feel like for some characters nested implications would be better because Fate Grand Order is a piece of shit and introduces variants of variants. It would be more logical if it was something like this:

To me it makes no sense that variants of variants, and even less so costumes of variants, be detached from the original variant and only implicated to the big catch-all tag. Swimsuit Okita Alter isn't just an Okita variant, she's specifically an Okita Alter variant. Swimsuit Jeanne Alter isn't just a Jeanne variant, she's specifically a Jeanne Alter variant.
Like I mentioned in forum #195623 this raises the issue of all the variants of variants that currently exist and are ONLY implicated to the big catch-all tag, which means that if you want all of the pictures of, let's say, Saber Alter, you have to do a two (or even three if we include her Santa version) tags search solely to see Saber Alter, Santa Alter and artoria_pendragon_(alter_swimsuit_rider)_(fate). Thematically this makes no sense to me.

Updated

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evazion

I would really prefer to keep tag hierarchies as flat as possible. I shudder to imagine how this is supposed to be arranged:

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nonamethanks

I'd say saber is a special case. It's a pain in the ass to have to do two- or three-way OR searches just because a character is in bikini vs wearing a jacket. Consider jeanne_d'arc_(alter_swimsuit_berserker)_(fate) vs jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) vs wicked_dragon_witch_ver._shinjuku_1999, they're just the same character. Right now all these three would be lumped together in the same (all) tag with the normal Jeanne, with no easy way to search for alter alone at once.

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Astolfo

Pretty much what NNT said. In a BUR I'd keep it strictly to cases that are pretty black and white, "this is obviously that one specific version in a swimsuit" or such, like the example of Jeanne Alter that he brought up. Worth nothing that swimsuit Jalter pictures routinely get tagged with normal Jalter tag as well, only to have the normal Jalter tag removed later by some other users, so this is already the way that a variety of users expect it to work like.

FWIW in the case of Artoria who's the largest and most annoying exception I'd probably arrange it like this if it wasn't flat, though this is just something I whipped up quickly:

Show

Worth noting that Arthur is separate from Artoria, so he'd have his own tree.

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