[Arknights] Costume implications

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FratmCforo

ANON_TOKYO said:

They should definitely require references to the oufits (though speculation based on the leaks would still count IMO).

Under different circumstances the kemonomimi features might suffice, but in this specific case the chosen species actually correspond to the most commonly chosen kemonomimi mode species, so we have a lot of fanart of i.e. Yahata Umiri as a wolf, Yuutenji Nyamu as a cat, and Misumi Uika being a dog is a whole range of memes on its own (see post #9094291). These kemonomimi features are common to the point where I've considered proposing tags for them, just like Raana the cat, so the bar for the Arknights tags should be higher than that.

Alright, thank you for the clarification. So would it be correct to remove the yahata_umiri_(moonlight_executioner) tag from post #9867324 ?

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FratmCforo

ANON_TOKYO said:

The Arknighst (hash)tag tells us that the kemonomimi ears in this post refer to that costume specifically, not the generic concept of yahata_umiri wolf_girl, since the normal outfits don't have these features.

Well that was the point that I asked about three posts ago:

Should these tags be used every time the Ave Mujica members display their respective kemonomimi features or when the specific outfits are used?

The outfit tags should be used when the specific clothes are present in the picture, not just the kemonomimi features. Otherwise there would be no way to distinguish the costumes themselves.
Take for example post #9246769 and post #9256385 , they were both created to celebrate the collaboration announcement with Arknights. However they are not applicable to the Togawa Sakiko (Master of Melodia) and Yuutenji Nyamu (Magician of Passion) tags.

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ANON TOKYO

We have design speculation (or sometimse prototype design) for those old posts. I personally don't know whether the tags for the final design generally get added too, but if it does then that would apply here too (and I would be in support of this).

In post #9867324 the hashtag tells us the wolf ears (more than likely) refer to the skin which we have a tag for, so it is appropriate to tag the skin too (since the skin also includes bodily features in this case). You can use commentary in to inform tagging in ambiguous cases like this, it doesn't have to be explicitly spelled out in the image itself.

Otherwise there would be no way to distinguish the costumes themselves.

If you want to achieve this, you need to find some other way. The characters don't have canonical kemonomimi features in the anime, the original game or in their normal representation in Arknights, it's only the named Arknights skins that have these features, so they should be considered part of that. I also don't think this slightly reduced granularity will cause any problems.

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FratmCforo

ANON_TOKYO said:

We have design speculation (or sometimse prototype design) for those old posts. I personally don't know whether the tags for the final design generally get added too, but if it does then that would apply here too (and I would be in support of this).

In post #9867324 the hashtag tells us the wolf ears (more than likely) refer to the skin which we have a tag for, so it is appropriate to tag the skin too (since the skin also includes bodily features in this case). You can use commentary in to inform tagging in ambiguous cases like this, it doesn't have to be explicitly spelled out in the image itself.

If you want to achieve this, you need to find some other way. The characters don't have canonical kemonomimi features in the anime, the original game or in their normal representation in Arknights, it's only the named Arknights skins that have these features, so they should be considered part of that. I also don't think this slightly reduced granularity will cause any problems.

The point that I'm trying to make is that the kemonomimi features do not imply the outfit tag. The Arknights tag would be sufficient.
So we would have the following cases:

1. Character with no kemonomimi features, in an Arknights context: Arknights + character tag
2. Character with kemonomimi features, in an Arknights context: Arknights + character tag + Kemonomimi mode
3. Character in their new outfit (with or without kemonomimi features): Arknights + character tag + outfit tag

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ANON TOKYO

And what I'm saying is that it doesn't make much sense to make this distinction. The only official depictions we have of them with animal ears is with those outfits, and we also have 2 depictions without animal ears but in an Arknights context. This tells us that in the context of Arknights, kemonomimi mode means we are talking about the skin, not a generic, untagged kemonomimi mode. There might be some old posts that just happenen to have the same specifies, those obviously don't apply. And as I said I don't know the standard for design speculation posts, but in general any new BanG Dream! It's MyGO!!!!! x Arknights crossover art with the correct species kemonomimi mode will be made in the context of these skins, and they should be tagged.

I dislike using both tags, but think of it as a (cursed) combination of official_alternate_costume alternate_costume.

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FratmCforo

I dislike using both tags, but think of it as a (cursed) combination of official_alternate_costume alternate_costume.

And therein lies the main problem, by forcibly associating the kemonomimi mode with the new outfits we will run in several complications.

As a thought experiment, let's take an hypothetical post where Togawa Sakiko has rabbit ears and is cosplaying as Amiya (arknights). Then by your reasoning we would have that she's wearing both outfits at once, for the simple fact that "rabbit ears" = Wakaba Mutsumi (Marionette's Id).

Additionally, for navigational purposes, the outfit tags would cease to be useful because a percentage of posts would not feature the desired clothes at all. Then we would need a Togawa Sakiko (Master of Melodia) tag (for when she has cat ears) and a Togawa Sakiko (Master of Melodia) (costume) tag (which could be used even if she has no cat ears).

These are some problems that can easily be solved by adopting my previously stated proposition or something similar.

While yes, some components of a specific outfit (e.g. headwear, accessories, shoes, skirts) do require the respective costume tag, I think that details such as horns or cat ears are too generic for such.

If you're still unconvinced then I think we should do some kind of poll and ask the opinions of others, otherwise we will get nowhere.

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ANON TOKYO

FratmCforo said:

And therein lies the main problem, by forcibly associating the kemonomimi mode with the new outfits we will run in several complications.

As a thought experiment, let's take an hypothetical post where Togawa Sakiko has rabbit ears and is cosplaying as Amiya (arknights). Then by your reasoning we would have that she's wearing both outfits at once, for the simple fact that "rabbit ears" = Wakaba Mutsumi (Marionette's Id).

But there is no "forced" association, just one where we assume the costume if the animal features are present and the species matches. In your example you wouldn't add any other one since it's obvious she's cosplaying Amiya, not Mutsumi. You don't have to add the tag. In the context of post #9867324, it got posted shortly after the announcements and there are no other specific indicators present, so we can assume it is referencing the outfit.

Additionally, for navigational purposes, the outfit tags would cease to be useful because a percentage of posts would not feature the desired clothes at all. Then we would need a Togawa Sakiko (Master of Melodia) tag (for when she has cat ears) and a Togawa Sakiko (Master of Melodia) (costume) tag (which could be used even if she has no cat ears).

This is already the case with many other tags. The "base" of the tag (the outfit) might not be present, but it can be explicitly or implicitly referenced, so it can still be a relevant search result. And I'd argue that that doesn't even apply in this case, since the animal features are actually part of it, akin to how the hair flower can distinguish Reed from Reed the Flame Shadow.

While yes, some components of a specific outfit (e.g. headwear, accessories, shoes, skirts) do require the respective costume tag, I think that details such as horns or cat ears are too generic for such.

I do understand this concern to a certain extent, but since the base characters in this case don't have those features, not even in Arknights, I think it's valid to use them as an indicator that we're looking at the skin.

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magcolo

FratmCforo said:

Not a misinterpretation, however that was the only moniker available to refer to that NPC before her name had been revealed months later.
Personally I think it should be fine to keep the alias, in case someone isn't up to date with the game and, also, it's not like the Rose Riverbank tag will ever be needed outside of this purpose.

It wasn't the only moniker. You're talking like descriptive tag names don't exist. Arknights itself has many of this type of tag names. It should have been something like Rose Riverbank Member or Rose Riverbank Vampire. Using the name of an organization as a character name is simply unreasonable.

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NNTBot

BUR #47288 has been approved by @evazion.

create implication bagpipe_(ambience_synesthesia)_(arknights) -> bagpipe_(arknights)

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Tags without a wiki that couldn't be submitted

This is an automatic post. Use topic #31779 to report errors/false positives or general feedback.

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