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Toutetsu Yuuma animal form

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Of the 3 pictures I could find having Toutetsu_Yuuma in animal form, all of them have her as a sheep while she is supposed to be a Taotie.
post #4951766 post #5018398 post #5194120

Apparently there is no agreement on what a Taotie is actually supposed to look like but what does her animal-form need to be tagged as?
Toutetsu_Yuuma_(sheep) or Toutetsu_Yuuma_(taotie)?

As the other Touhou animal form tags I've found tend to err on the side of what its supposed to be though its not consistent.
For example its Reiuji_Utsuho_(bird) but Himekaidou_Hatate_(crow) and its Komano_Aunn_(komainu) no matter what sort of animal she's depicted as.

Updated

FWP said:

Apparently @tremolo_measure has apparently created the Toutetsu_Yuuma_(sheep) tag.

So am I OK in assuming that is the answer?

No, I did not create the tag, but I noticed that this tag exists thanks to this post #5292026
I thought I had seen pictures of Toutetsu as a sheep/taotie in the past, and a quick search led me to these two posts (post #4951766 and post #5018398) I only added the tag to those two posts, but as such I did not create the tag.
I think the person who created the tag was the person who uploaded the first post, that is, Shynaku.

leaving that aside, I think it makes more sense for the tag to be called "Toutetsu_Yuuma_(taotie)" as it would be more coherent with the other tags mentioned above.

Username_Hidden said:

I'm fairly sure she's a sheep in the artwork you linked.
My proposal to use animalization instead of making small character tags for each character was also avoid discussions on whether it's X or Y.

Well, technically it is possible to go that way, but I think it would overcomplicate things, let me explain.
the first point would be to nuking all touhou animal tags, otherwise, it would be strange that some characters have their animal tag and others don't.
Even if only some characters have tags and others don't, what parameter do we use? their popularity?

My second point is the ease of search.
for example, if we search for komeiji_koishi_(cat) we get Koishi images as a cat, easy don't you think?
on the other hand, if we search for images with the tags komeiji_koishi + animalization, things get more complicated, usually there are images of Koishi as any animal, not strictly a cat, or Koishi accompanied by another character who is an animal (ex. Koishi with Rin cat form)
this could be solved just by doing a much more complex search like "Komeiji koishi + animalization + cat + -kaenbyou_rin".
with the animal tags it is easier to search, it is not the best system, but it is better than doing an excessively complex search.
I could also count that sometimes an image is mistagged with furry instead animalization, although this last point is situational.

1. We wouldn't nuke all touhou_(anima) tags because several characters have canonical animal forms (Chen, Orin, Okuu, Miko)
2. Any character with an official animal form shouldn't be tagged animalization, because they're not being depicted as an animal, they're being depicted in their animal form, it's not the same thing.

blindVigil said:

1. We wouldn't nuke all touhou_(anima) tags because several characters have canonical animal forms (Chen, Orin, Okuu, Miko)

well...
There are also several others which, although based on animals, are not canonically animal-form.
hong_meiling_(panda) mystia_lorelei_(bird) inubashiri_momiji_(wolf) nazrin_(mouse) kishin_sagume_(bird) toramaru_shou_(tiger) niwatari_kutaka_(chicken) ushizaki_urumi_(ushi_oni) kicchou_yachie_(jidiao) komano_aunn_(komainu) inaba_tewi_(bunny)

under this criteria, the fact that a character is based on a mythological animal does not mean that it is canonically a animal form.
furthermore, if we say that the latter DOES count, then toutetsu would qualify under this criteria, as we know, she is a taotie, not an ordinary sheep.
so, once again, it should be changed sheep to taotie, just look at urumi as example, it says "ushi-oni" not "cow".

now, let's imagine that from now on only canonical animal forms qualify, what should be done, should all the above mentioned tags be nuked because are no canonical/are fan made?

tremolo_measure said:

now, let's imagine that from now on only canonical animal forms qualify, what should be done, should all the above mentioned tags be nuked because are no canonical/are fan made?

Pretty much, yeah. The only downside I can see is that older characters can have their search slightly muddied from the sheer amount of artworks they appear in, but i think it's better than to maintain some 40 character tags, most of them single-digit, which can all be grouped up under a single gentag.

under this criteria, the fact that a character is based on a mythological animal does not mean that it is canonically a animal form.
furthermore, if we say that the latter DOES count, then toutetsu would qualify under this criteria, as we know, she is a taotie, not an ordinary sheep.
so, once again, it should be changed sheep to taotie, just look at urumi as example, it says "ushi-oni" not "cow".

If we really want to nitpick, Mystia is not supposed to be a generic bird, but rather a Yosuzume, but because the original translation decided to translate Yosuzume into Night Sparrow, english-speaking people preferred to leave it that way (not like most people know about it anyways). Her tag is not Mystia Lorelei (yosuzume) nor Mystia Lorelei (sparrow).
It wouldn't make sense to change it to either though, because sometimes artists take artistic freedoms - for example, Fujiwara no Mokou (phoenix) cannot be used in post #1606691, because she's depicted as a cockatoo. Would we have to make a Fujiwara no Mokou (Cockatoo) tag? Or just tag it as animalization? But then, why not directly alias Fujiwara no Mokou (Phoenix) to Fujiwara no Mokou (bird), to make up for these fringe cases?

I'd like to go with the principle of Occam's Razor, and group all of them under animalization. It's much simpler than to figure out where arbitrary exceptions should be made and where not.

(As a side note, Meiling (Panda) is also arbitrary, she's not based on a panda, she's just chinese.)

I realize now I may have been unclear. When I said we wouldn't nuke them all, I meant if we started nuking them, we would leave the characters with animal forms that actually appear in official media alone. I wasn't trying to say that we wouldn't nuke any of them, we would just only nuke the fanon (animal) tags.

I also think if it's common enough for certain characters, such as Mystia, then it's fine to have its own tag. The fanon tags should still be tagged animalization though.

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