Posted under General
I think "a faceless/out of frame gangbang counts as solo but not several views of the same single character and no one else in the picture" is quite an indication of how arbitrary the tag definition was made back then myself, but regardless of whether the caveat is arbitrary or not - considering you voted against it I thought it pretty safe to assume that you thought the change would be a bad thing. Assumptions etc etc.
Given the choice between changing it and not changing it I would go with not changing it because I think the current usage of solo is more logical and intuitive than the proposed version.
But I accept the arguments in the other direction so would not mind much if the change was made.
My reason for speaking up was twofold - to make sure that BUR doesn't get blindly approved when it would cause as many problems than it solves even if the decision is made to change it, and to avoid creating inconsistencies, as I cannot see any logic that would mean including with lots of depictions of the same character but then excluding them if they are in different comic panels. The two things should thus really be considered together - either change both or change neither.
skylightcrystal said:
I think the current usage of solo is more logical and intuitive than the proposed version.
That argument doesn't stand. I'm fairly sure the amount of people who have used solo "the right way", without having read the wiki or being reprimanded for mistagging, are lower than the amount of people who think solo should be used along multiple views.
I cannot see any logic that would mean including with lots of depictions of the same character but then excluding them if they are in different comic panels. The two things should thus really be considered together - either change both or change neither.
I don't agree with the "both or neither" statement, but I do agree with everything else.
skylightcrystal said:
My reason for speaking up was twofold - to make sure that BUR doesn't get blindly approved when it would cause as many problems than it solves even if the decision is made to change it, and to avoid creating inconsistencies, as I cannot see any logic that would mean including with lots of depictions of the same character but then excluding them if they are in different comic panels. The two things should thus really be considered together - either change both or change neither.
The BUR not including any potential undesired posts inside the solo tag after it gets approved would require both ideal users, tagging everything correctly and a better tagging system. For example, adding -solo focus was only necessary because people forgot to tag the negated tags where they should, like 1boy on post #5104709, otherwise they would be automatically excluded from the BUR. What if they also forgot to tag solo focus or forgot one of the previous tags in a non solo focus image, for example post #4862905? Then just negating it at the left side of the BUR won't prevent undesired results after it gets approved.
The second problem is that we can't just add -chartags:>1 to the left side because of the alternate costumes, (alter), (all) chartags, meaning that we have to accept something like post #5198216 tagged with solo after the BUR is approved.
Negating more tags or not, either way we would have to go back through the same search and manually fixing the wrong ones, I don't think the BUR is functional because there's no way of getting an ideal search on the left side without also excluding the correct posts that should go with solo from it.
Updated
skylightcrystal said:
Given the choice between changing it and not changing it I would go with not changing it because I think the current usage of solo is more logical and intuitive than the proposed version.
If so many people use it "wrong", then it's obviously not logical or intuitive. The logical assumption for any newcomer would be that solo means 1 character in a picture. The idea that one character seen from multiple angles somehow makes it not solo is something that wouldn't cross most people's minds, because it's a separate concept from tags like dual_persona or solo_focus. solo_focus in particular one would assume is for posts that feature multiple characters but only focus on one, not one character seen multiple times.
The worst part I think, is how certain multiple_views pics simply show one part of the character's body from a slightly different angle, and that alone makes it verboten to tag it solo. "Dumb" doesn't even begin to describe it, it' just not what people want from the tags, it's counter-intuitive.
blindVigil said:
That's only a marginal improvement over the status quo, and still doesn't address solos other inherent problems. Solo multiple_views mistags may not be the only way solo is misused, but it still makes up a not-insignificant percentage of them. Those posts wouldn't be considered mistags if solo wasn't defined the way it is, and this proposed second tag wouldn't do anything to fix that.
It's also passing the buck. -multiple_views is too much of an inconvenience, apparently, but making everyone else use a second tag is fine. A second tag that now needs to be populated, by hand most likely, and kept clean, while everyone continues to misuse solo regularly. It's just more work for everyone, while known problems are allowed to persist, problems that have an easy solution. Instead of removing solo from multiple views posts, you're now replacing solo with solo multiple_views. It's the same amount of work, there's just now a third tag to keep track of.
Meanwhile, making solo inclusive reduces the total number of mistags, makes a previously virtually impossible search actually doable, and adds a very slight, and easily worked around, inconvenience to "one instance of one character" searches.
One of those sounds a lot better to me.
Sounds to me Solo needs redefined if it is prone to being mistagged.
The bulk update request #10214 (forum #212091) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
