@magcolo: > Hankpropaniac57 said: > > PowaPowa-P comes...

magcolo
2024-02-18T13:55:55-05:00

Hankpropaniac57 said:

PowaPowa-P comes up as an example of someone who's essentially known by two names. Some English-language sites still use PowaPowa-P, while a lot of Japanese sources (official re-uploads by his label, Wikipedia, his Twitter, etc.) use siinamota. My first instinct is to use the most up-to-date name available. Meaning siinamota's songs would have a consistent qualifier, even if some of them were made when he went by a different name. That could cause issues in the future when an artist decides to change their name, but would be better than having tags with inconsistently named qualifiers because an artist changed their name halfway through their career.

At the same time, does that apply to producers like Hachi/Yonezu Kenshi, who marked a separation in his Vocaloid and non-Vocaloid music by starting to use his real name? The answer would probably depend on whether someone wanted to see Kick Back art alongside Matryoshka art when looking up *_(yonezu_kenshi). I personally wouldn't, and think that it would be beneficial to have a Vocaloid/non-Vocaloid split. So except in those cases, I would rather we use their most recent name.

I agree with using the most up-to-date name in general, additionally, many old p-names should be avoided simply because a lot of them were given by fans and not what the artist calls themselves.

Producers that use a different alias after their mainstream debut is also one of my concerns. Yonezu Kenshi being the most prominent one obviously, especially since he basically quit the vocaloid market, but there're others as well. Ones like kemu <-> Horie Shota, Yuukisan <-> Kamiyama Yoh, balloon <-> Suda Keina have the exact same issue. Personally I don't mind seeing works of both aliases under the same search, the more music I've listened and the more I know them, the more I begin to see them as a whole. But I get that some might not feel that, and it's inevitably odd to qualify a vocaloid song with a mainstream alias because of how the terms are used. We would need more opinions on this one.

Hankpropaniac57 said:

As for solo vs. group projects, it'd make sense to qualify solo work with the solo artist and group work with the group. But do you have any examples that would make qualifying like this difficult? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

There're actually a lot, I do get the impression that they're not very known (even when some are very successful), maybe because they're hidden in the credits and not everyone look there. For instance, n-buna -> yorushika, yurry canon -> tsukiyomi, pusu -> tuyu, ayase -> yoasobi etc. There're also Zutomayo, MAISONdes and Sangatsu no Phatasia that don't have the songwriters as direct members but has involved many different ones in their productions. Whether it's a collaborative project or just a commission isn't always clear.

Also I forgot to mention artists who, while having a solo alias, works in affiliation most of the time, but then sometimes goes back to solo mode. Such as Wonopo (Jesus and Minus) or Yamashizuku (Hitoshizuku and Yama). The fact that they share almost all of their accounts under a joint alias strongly ties them together, but there're times where they work alone. How do we handle that?

Hankpropaniac57 said:

Collaboration songs are also a bit awkward, but have a more immediate solution, which is to include multiple names in the tag. That would allow one to keep the ability to do wildcard searches for music a producer is involved in (ex. star_night_snow_(orangestar/n-buna) would be picked up by both an *orangestar* and *n-buna* search). However, that changes the search and could lead to false positives (there are currently two artist tags with "orangestar" in their names). It is still doable, but awkward. And then if there's fanart for a song with, say, 10 producers on it, that would get messy very quickly.

As silly as the idea sounds I was starting to think the same thing, but maybe *_(orangestar)_(n-buna) instead. I can immediately think of 1 songs that's a collaboration between 4 different producers, 1 between 3 producers and 1 utaite, and 1 between 14 utaites... Also more opinions needed.

Hankpropaniac57 said:

Project Voltage is another example. Do these songs belong to the projects or the producers? I'm unsure whether events like Magical Mirai should count, because I don't think anyone would say Dappou Rock is more of a Magical Mirai song than it is a Neru song. But then there's songs for things like Project Sekai, which are more associated with the game (from what I understand, at least). I see two options, either using the artist name as a qualifier as proposed, or using the project name as a qualifier. It would depend on which is more valuable, being able to group together every song a producer has ever written for anything, or being able to group together image songs for specific copyrights. I would tentatively say the latter is more important and that the project should be used as the qualifier for commercially produced songs. But this requires some more discussion, because it would re-introduce some inconsistency.

This sounds simple on paper but isn't always the case as different series operates differently.
Magical Mirai depends on the year, Dappou Rock might not be but 39 music and future eve certainly are. Honestly I'm in favor that we qualify them with the producer anyway, I just wanted to add more variates to the examples.
Stuff like love live! songs are definitely strongly connected to the series as opposed to the producer. But you also get project sekai where, because of the visibility of the producers and how they release their own version's music video, they're not very detached from the producer's personal works. Some might not even know that the song is a commission. The same can be said to a lot of mainstream artists and bands where you can't even recognize a commission until you look in the credits.

Hankpropaniac57 said:

Honestly, I don't know what to do about utaite originals and old anime songs. Old anime songs could be qualified with the anime if need be, maybe. Utaite originals are out of my depth, but if I were to compare it to Vocaloid tagging, using the singer as a qualifier would be like making a song tag called "world_is_mine_(hatsune_miku)". Those song tags may also benefit from having artist qualifiers.

Not just utaites, this also includes mainstream singers, as we do have a little bit of them on the site even though they're obscured. Honestly, if we go with the multiple qualifier plan for collaborations, we might as well do the same with "collaborations" between singers and songwriters. It's better than having to fight for which one to keep, but again faces the same problem for multi-collaborative songs.

I'm in favor that we go completely copytag for songs including old anime openings and idol projects like love live! and idolmaster. Not just for consistency, but that way it's also clearer whether the song has been tagged or which songs are involved by looking at the copyright section without having to hunt for them in the huge gentag section, I've always found that annoying.