Posted under Tags
Kaleidoscoped said:
the alternative to this would be carving out a separate category and populating femboy as a tag of its own, as some others have already suggested.
Given how those who care about girly boy have expressed their discontent over the tag being misrepresented by otokonoko and trap enjoyers, I think we would have to go with that option.
Damian0358 said:
Given how those who care about girly boy have expressed their discontent over the tag being misrepresented by otokonoko and trap enjoyers, I think we would have to go with that option.
yeah, i'm still not entirely sure what exactly girly boy is meant to be for, hence the self-meh-vote. in all honesty i'd much rather femboy be a separate tag, and if we can't do that, then ditch the alias and put up a disambiguation page in its place.
Kaleidoscoped said:
yeah, i'm still not entirely sure what exactly girly boy is meant to be for, hence the self-meh-vote. in all honesty i'd much rather femboy be a separate tag, and if we can't do that, then ditch the alias and put up a disambiguation page in its place.
The best thing we could hope for is for someone like @feline_lump or someone else who cares about it (like the one who made the tag or helped build the tag's foundations) to make a favgroup banishing whatever isn't girly boy from that tag (including whatever NNT banished there) as well as any relevant examples from otokonoko/trap to this theoretical new femboy tag (or tomgirl if we for some reason wanted to crack that can of worms open, forum #359977).
very late to this and also probably said this already (no i didn't) but i think. if you're on danbooru you're almost certainly going to know what otokonoko refers to, if you're gonna change it (to a pretty notably controversial name at that, but that Doesn't Matter for the sake of this post) you might as well have gone through with (for example) that one bur to change paizuri to titfuck as well (or similarly unnecessary jp-to-eng gentag burs). (speaking as someone who usually prefers english terms here, if it matters)
speardovich said:
very late to this
and also probably said this already(no i didn't) but i think. if you're on danbooru you're almost certainly going to know what otokonoko refers to, if you're gonna change it (to a pretty notably controversial name at that, but that Doesn't Matter for the sake of this post) you might as well have gone through with (for example) that one bur to change paizuri to titfuck as well (or similarly unnecessary jp-to-eng gentag burs). (speaking as someone who usually prefers english terms here, if it matters)
I didn't know what it meant, and I know I'm not alone in that here. I don't think it's as commonly understood as you're suggesting. There's been a bit of discussion of this in this thread based on tag counts on other sites I believe.
Paizuri really is well understood though, so it actually is different and an exception. I also prefer English terms but I think paizuri has become a loan word in these spaces.
speardovich said:
very late to this
and also probably said this already(no i didn't) but i think. if you're on danbooru you're almost certainly going to know what otokonoko refers to, if you're gonna change it (to a pretty notably controversial name at that, but that Doesn't Matter for the sake of this post) you might as well have gone through with (for example) that one bur to change paizuri to titfuck as well (or similarly unnecessary jp-to-eng gentag burs). (speaking as someone who usually prefers english terms here, if it matters)
I didn't know what it meant, after a long break from the site it did take checking the wiki to realise what had become the trap tag. I only know the term now because of that.
speardovich said:
very late to this
and also probably said this already(no i didn't) but i think. if you're on danbooru you're almost certainly going to know what otokonoko refers to, if you're gonna change it (to a pretty notably controversial name at that, but that Doesn't Matter for the sake of this post) you might as well have gone through with (for example) that one bur to change paizuri to titfuck as well (or similarly unnecessary jp-to-eng gentag burs). (speaking as someone who usually prefers english terms here, if it matters)
I didn’t know what it meant (part 3), as I remember seeing trap and femboy as much more frequently used terms online. I believe femboy in particular has become mainstream compared to the alternatives, and a very broad term which I don’t know if it’s what we’re looking for.
About paizuri and titfuck, I prefer the former since it contrasts well with naizuri. Analogically, we got trap and reverse trap.
aster1a said:
Analogically, we got trap and reverse trap.
I mean, technically speaking, as topic #31690 was the whole reason why this topic exists to begin with, had the change not gone through we likely would've seen forum #349358 approved to ensure consistency.
Damian0358 said:
I mean, technically speaking, as topic #31690 was the whole reason why this topic exists to begin with, had the change not gone through we likely would've seen forum #349358 approved to ensure consistency.
I know. In fact, anything can still happen. Until then, I’m looking at what we currently have.
I never liked the idea of excluding the term Trap from western sites and discussion. Whole I can understand the concern some have towards the term, by banning it on the ground that it can be used to offend others, we create the precedent for the exclusion of every other term. If all it takes is someone feeling offended to change how we speak, then we will never be able to properly establish and use any sort of terminology, as any word has the potential to be offensive.
Also, the word Trap was accepted by Japanese forums and artists https://dic.pixiv.net/a/Trap.
I also think that using Trap can be important once that it helps separate the Otokonoko genre from transexuality, something that even people in Japan are trying to do, as the Otokonoko article in Pixiv points out
Damian0358 said:
I mean, technically speaking, as topic #31690 was the whole reason why this topic exists to begin with, had the change not gone through we likely would've seen forum #349358 approved to ensure consistency.
I dunno if we can really assume that to have been the likely outcome. "Reverse otokonoko" is a completely ridiculous phrase, which NNT voted against. Being that he and evazion are the majority of BUR handlers among the admins, unless evazion came in and approved it, I cannot see NNT approving that BUR for any reason at all, least of all for consistency with a term he already strongly disagreed with. As far as his stated opinions are concerned, that BUR would accomplish nothing but making the tag worse for essentially no reason, even if we kept otokonoko.
Damian0358 said:
theoretical new femboy tag (or tomgirl if we for some reason wanted to crack that can of worms open, forum #359977).
fwiw my disambiguation page idea isn't a display of defeatism on my part, it's a genuine suggestion on how this could be handled. maybe i'm overprojecting here or maybe someone else can back me up on this, but femboy seems to be a victim of this effect the internet has on certain words where their meaning is progressively diluted into nothingness.
i've personally seen the term be used on everything from bishounen to androgynous men to crossdressers to traps to (mostly in an irl context) full-blown trans women. add to that an alias to a tag that doesn't exactly match what it's aliased to, and you get stuff like post #9577490 or post #9593870 (warning - explicit) or post #9541497 or about a hundred Venti (Genshin Impact) posts having been initially tagged trap. more examples here if you care to look.
in that sense, femboy is more of a self-assigned identity than a visual quantifier, and if that sounds like a bad tag idea for a site that primarily relies on tagging what one sees, that's because it probably is.
The bulk update request #42868 (forum #362778) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
The bulk update request #42881 (forum #362889) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
So the justification for BUR #40541 being approved was "most people were for moving the tag" based on some confusing table, and "otoko no ko was a stupid name that nobody uses".
Now we have BUR #42868 with a clear amount of upvotes/downvotes (+72 / -42), yet this got silently rejected.
Yeah, I don't see how it makes sense to make the change based on a minority of support then uphold it despite the majority rejecting the change. The idea that the tag is confusing doesn't pass the sniff test when plenty of Japanese-language tags like futanari, paizuri, doyagao, dojikko, etc. exist without problem despite there being more recognizable English-language variants.
there was recently an attempt to have paizuri changed. topic #32399 if you'd like to have a look at the discussion.
HyphenSam said:
So the justification for BUR #40541 being approved was "most people were for moving the tag" based on some confusing table, and "otoko no ko was a stupid name that nobody uses".
Now we have BUR #42868 with a clear amount of upvotes/downvotes (+72 / -42), yet this got silently rejected.
It probably suffered from sample bias, since most people who care to dig that deep and look for it are already emotionally invested in the tag name.
As well, it's not good form in a voting system to keep having redos until you get the result you want.
SignedName said:
Yeah, I don't see how it makes sense to make the change based on a minority of support then uphold it despite the majority rejecting the change. The idea that the tag is confusing doesn't pass the sniff test when plenty of Japanese-language tags like futanari, paizuri, doyagao, dojikko, etc. exist without problem despite there being more recognizable English-language variants.
Maybe that's a case for changing those too then. paizuri is a special case in my opinion, as is futanari - they've both entered the English lexicon in online art spaces like this - but I've never heard of the other two and wouldn't understand them without the wiki, nor will I remember them if I need to tag those concepts. If there are good English terms for them why don't you make a BUR?
