Beatmania costume dilemma

The Bemani series copytags don't get any more granular than subseries (i.e. Beatmania IIDX), but the characters have different costumes in different games, which currently is untagged whatsoever... For example, Hishimiya Tsugaru - post #6359496 is her outfit from IIDX 28 Bistrover, post #1715220 from IIDX 20 Tricoro, post #8716492 from IIDX 32 Pinky Crush, etc. The other mascot characters almost always get new costumes as well.

This is making me wonder if we should have copytags for the individual games? At least, the ones with unique costumes or other content, that is. My only concern is that it might accidentally be a can of worms in regards to Bemani as a whole, plus that would make a four layer implication :/

The can of worms thing is why I specify with unique costumes, because obviously I don't think it would be beneficial to tag like, the individual Dance Dance Revolution games. I'm not sure if other Bemani games have similar unique costumes for entries - maybe Sound Voltex and Pop'n Music?

There's also the alternative of tagging costumes as chartags, but given that a game can have new costumes for like three characters and they're not named it seems... Not ideal? We do have Kureha (666) (Sound Voltex), I suppose, but that's an appearance from a specific song, not a whole game.

Edit: Seems there's definitely more unique content than just costumes and songs to the individual games, too, post #8870259 features a character unique to Beatmania IIDX 26 Rootage, I believe?

Yeah, this seems to be a complicated situation, probably made more complicated by the fact that, well, at 3k posts I'd assume Bemani generally doesn't get much attention whatsoever, prompting a lack of discussion on this. Like, doing tag discussion searches in the forum shows most discussion on any of these being in the last two to three years, mainly from you, Confetto, despite the broader appeal these series have.

The only idea I have, if we have no option but to go with the copytag route, is to flatter the implication layers. That means getting rid of Beatmania (series) and GITADORA (and moving relevant other names to be for Bemani), following up on forum #294664 and requalifying any characters that transcend their game of origin and appear across the brand of titles, and gardening posts so that they more explicitly follow the tagging practice of "after they appear in more than one of a given [copyright]'s entries, they get the general copyright tag instead and only receive the specific ones if the post explicitly references it" (ex. Android 18 only getting Dragon Ball unless she's depicted in one of her Dragon Ball Z-era outfits, as she looks the same in Z as she does in Dragon Ball Super naked). That would make it far easier to search for a given character art that specifically references something without getting into deeper tagging like costume chartags (ala gacha, VTubers, etc.), or event/song gentags (ala Fate event gentags or song gentags).

Damian0358 said:

Yeah, this seems to be a complicated situation, probably made more complicated by the fact that, well, at 3k posts I'd assume Bemani generally doesn't get much attention whatsoever, prompting a lack of discussion on this. Like, doing tag discussion searches in the forum shows most discussion on any of these being in the last two to three years, mainly from you, Confetto, despite the broader appeal these series have.

The only idea I have, if we have no option but to go with the copytag route, is to flatter the implication layers. That means getting rid of Beatmania (series) and GITADORA (and moving relevant other names to be for Bemani), following up on forum #294664 and requalifying any characters that transcend their game of origin and appear across the brand of titles, and gardening posts so that they more explicitly follow the tagging practice of "after they appear in more than one of a given [copyright]'s entries, they get the general copyright tag instead and only receive the specific ones if the post explicitly references it" (ex. Android 18 only getting Dragon Ball unless she's depicted in one of her Dragon Ball Z-era outfits, as she looks the same in Z as she does in Dragon Ball Super naked). That would make it far easier to search for a given character art that specifically references something without getting into deeper tagging like costume chartags (ala gacha, VTubers, etc.), or event/song gentags (ala Fate event gentags or song gentags).

I don't have an opposition to getting rid of Beatmania (series) tbh, given IIDX vastly outnumbers the original and III and pretty much always will. GITADORA is pretty inseparable though since the whole gimmick is that the games connect together. I don't think it really has the same issue as Beatmania does though so it's not a big deal.

Bemani is pretty niche in English-speaking anime fan spaces despite its massive Japanese following, so I'm not surprised by the lack of upkeep for it.

As for requalifying shared characters, I think it does make sense to an extent, like for characters like Knit who are notable in multiple gsmes, but for some others their appearance in other games doesn't usually extend past a promotional crossover thing or one pf their songs being added to the game.

Confetto said:

GITADORA is pretty inseparable though since the whole gimmick is that the games connect together. I don't think it really has the same issue as Beatmania does though so it's not a big deal.

In that case, we can go the other way around: getting rid of GuitarFreaks and DrumMania and just using GITADORA instead. If they're so inseperable, what is the point of having separate tags for them? That way, individual game copytags that may or may not have different costumes for its characters can just directly imply GITADORA instead. Regardless of whether it has the same issue or not, I'm just thinking in terms of layer reduction here.

Damian0358 said:

In that case, we can go the other way around: getting rid of GuitarFreaks and DrumMania and just using GITADORA instead. If they're so inseperable, what is the point of having separate tags for them? That way, individual game copytags that may or may not have different costumes for its characters can just directly imply GITADORA instead. Regardless of whether it has the same issue or not, I'm just thinking in terms of layer reduction here.

Yeah, I think that would be the right call as recent games are merged

BUR #40573 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

remove implication beatmania -> beatmania_(series)
remove implication beatmania_iidx -> beatmania_(series)
remove implication beatmania_iii -> beatmania_(series)
create implication beatmania -> bemani
create implication beatmania_iidx -> bemani
create implication beatmania_iii -> bemani
nuke beatmania_(series)

The Beatmania umbrella tag in hindsight isn't super necessary to begin with, so I'll just make a BUR for it here. If we do want to add IIDX game copytags for searching purposes, it'd be best to flatten this implication.

Beatmania and Beatmania III were very shortlived and unsuccessful, so the vast majority of the series tag is just IIDX. They could all pretty safely just imply Bemani, I don't think there's a particular need for the ability to search for all three.

BUR #40574 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create alias guitarfreaks -> gitadora
create alias drummania -> gitadora

These two brands aren't separated in recent games, recent entries are just under the single title of GITADORA. Flattening them allows for less implication layering issues if we run into situations of characters having costumes unique to specific entries.

https://remywiki.com/GITADORA_Information

The bulk update request #40574 (forum #349686) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #41128 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Been slowly chipping away at these, tagging them on costumes, characters, and songs from the appropriate games. It's been an uphill battle. Character-wise, these games aren't very well documented in English, so there's still the occasional costume floating around that I know is official but I have no idea from what.

BUR #41129 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication mizushiro_celica_(punk_cat) -> mizushiro_celica
create implication umegiri_iroha_(candy_bunny) -> umegiri_iroha
create implication hinazuki_ririna_(candy_bunny) -> hinazuki_ririna

And then there's these three outliers. Very popular outliers. They're from figures, and I can't really group them like I can Beatmania IIDX Figure Collection and Beatmania IIDX Figure Collection Remix.

As you can probably tell, I'm trying to avoid making too many costume chartags for this series unless I have no other option, given how often costumes are part of a shared set/theme for a game or are minor variations. :')

Don't forget to list them in appropriate wikis.

Damian0358 said:

Don't forget to list them in appropriate wikis.

I'm working on overhauling the wikis too, so I definitely will be.

The bulk update request #41128 (forum #355733) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

The bulk update request #40573 (forum #349685) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

The bulk update request #41129 (forum #355734) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Should beatmania be renamed to something like beatmania (1997)?

BUR #41338 is pending approval.

rename beatmania -> beatmania_(1997)

Let's try that.

BUR #41342 is pending approval.

rename rche_(beatmania) -> rche_(beatmania_iidx)
rename ereki_(beatmania) -> ereki_(beatmania_iidx)
rename sirius_(beatmania) -> sirius_(beatmania_iidx)
rename himiko_(beatmania) -> himiko_(beatmania_iidx)
rename tran_(beatmania) -> tran_(beatmania_iidx)
rename sumomo_(beatmania) -> sumomo_(beatmania_iidx)
rename faula_(beatmania) -> faula_(beatmania_iidx)
rename chronos_(beatmania) -> chronos_(beatmania_iidx)
rename aegis_(beatmania) -> aegis_(beatmania_iidx)
rename duel_(beatmania) -> duel_(beatmania_iidx)
rename daruma_(beatmania) -> daruma_(beatmania_iidx)
rename fireboy_(beatmania) -> fireboy_(beatmania_iidx)

Fixing some inconsistent character qualifiers.