Hololive & Nijisanji main branch tags proposal

BUR #42890 is pending approval.

create implication hololive_(main_branch) -> hololive
create implication nijisanji_(main_branch) -> nijisanji

I think it's about time. If this has been discussed before then I couldn't find it.
Both agencies have multiple offshoot branches with their own tags but no way to search for just the original, and the branches speak different languages so it can't be uncommon to only care about one. Excluding the branch tags cuts out a lot of cross-branch group pictures you might want to see, and because of VirtuaReal you can't even exclude all of Nijisanji's foreign branches in a two-tag search.

If we do this then populating with a big mass update over all the related chartags would get near everything but the odd no_humans scenery type post, it would just be a pain to type up. They're sometimes called Nijisanji JP and Hololive Japan which as far as I can tell are both unofficial (and in Nijisanji's case, inaccurate) names but they might be useful aliases.

Putting aside the actual reason, this is pointless because none of those "Main Branch" tags are populated nor is there any line in your BUR to populate them. You're trying to imply tags with no posts to them. Ideally for something like this your proposal should also include a favgroup that would be mass updated with the antecedent tag before implying it so there's some example posts to look over that supplement your reasoning.

WRS said:

Putting aside the actual reason, this is pointless because none of those "Main Branch" tags are populated nor is there any line in your BUR to populate them. You're trying to imply tags with no posts to them. Ideally for something like this your proposal should also include a favgroup that would be mass updated with the antecedent tag before implying it so there's some example posts to look over that supplement your reasoning.

I think he's doing this as a way to gauge interest in the tags.

Yeah, I thought it would be best to just put up a BUR for people to vote on that makes clear what I'm going for and worry about the details later. Maybe that was a mistake.

Can anyone explain why this is a bad idea? If an anime tag gets a bunch of subtitled sequels and spinoffs implying it then you'll want a new tag just for the original series, and I don't see how this is different. The Holo/Niji tags were made to represent specific groups, but have ended up as umbrellas for multiple groups and now a search specifically for the original is impossible.

fairn said:

BUR #42890 is pending approval.

create implication hololive_(main_branch) -> hololive
create implication nijisanji_(main_branch) -> nijisanji

I think it's about time. If this has been discussed before then I couldn't find it.
Both agencies have multiple offshoot branches with their own tags but no way to search for just the original, and the branches speak different languages so it can't be uncommon to only care about one. Excluding the branch tags cuts out a lot of cross-branch group pictures you might want to see, and because of VirtuaReal you can't even exclude all of Nijisanji's foreign branches in a two-tag search.

If we do this then populating with a big mass update over all the related chartags would get near everything but the odd no_humans scenery type post, it would just be a pain to type up. They're sometimes called Nijisanji JP and Hololive Japan which as far as I can tell are both unofficial (and in Nijisanji's case, inaccurate) names but they might be useful aliases.

I don't know how I feel of it being called "Main Branch" most fans call both agencies in their main branch "holo/NijiJP", which is more often better then calling it "Main Branch", or we just keep it as it is

fairn said:

Both agencies have multiple offshoot branches with their own tags but no way to search for just the original

Consider the following:

hololive -hololive_english -hololive_indonesia -hololive_dev_is -hololive_china

nijisanji -nijisanji_en -nijisanji_kr -nijisanji_id -nijisanji_in -virtuareal

Also like GamingRodent said _(JP) would make a better qualifier for the main branches (gonna be frank though, tagging the JP branches separately feels a bit redundant).

alphashitlord said:

Consider the following:

That's technically not a valid counterargument. If it was, we wouldn't have tags like, for example, Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica (anime), which has only been a tag since forum #233380 despite being for an anime that's over a decade old in a franchise with tons of spinoffs. Plus, those searches also remove in-company crossover art between the other branches and the JP branches.

alphashitlord said:

hololive -hololive_english -hololive_indonesia -hololive_dev_is -hololive_china

nijisanji -nijisanji_en -nijisanji_kr -nijisanji_id -nijisanji_in -virtuareal

I have a saved search similar to the Nijisanji one, both out of personal interest and so I can keep on top of character requests and costume tags, and it's all the images I miss that eventually annoyed me enough to make this thread. If someone wants to search for pictures of Nijisanji's main branch, then obviously they wouldn't want things like post #8069997 to be excluded (there's a tiny half-obscured Meloco Kyoran somewhere in there). The alternative sucks more, Niji branch tags are on about 25% of all Nijisanji posts and Holo branch tags are on about 38% of Hololive posts so that would be a tonne of junk to add to the search results if it's not what you're looking for.

I'll also point out again that these searches can't be done with Joe Member's two tags. They could approximate it with hololive -hololive_* but then they're losing loads of other tags like Hololive Idol Uniform (origin) and Hololive Grand Theft Auto. I don't think that's acceptable.

Another problem: what if someone specifically wants to find crossovers between main and side branches, is it even possible to search for that currently? Maybe a very patient Platinum+ can type out every Hololive main branch member in a huge OR, but there's no chance anyone's doing that for Nijisanji.

I think JP branch tags would be useful. It's a good point to be accessible to blue members.

I wouldn't mind a tag for the JP branch if it helps searchability, the main reason I voted meh was because I think the (main_branch) qualifier is too clunky

Mexiguy said:

I wouldn't mind a tag for the JP branch if it helps searchability, the main reason I voted meh was because I think the (main_branch) qualifier is too clunky

I mehd for the same reason. The idea is good I just think it should be _(jp). At least for Nijisanji we still tag the ex-ID and ex-KR members with Nijisanji ID and Nijisanji KR respectively so a main branch tag wouldn't apply to them.

BUR #43353 is pending approval.

create implication hololive_(japan) -> hololive
create implication nijisanji_(jp) -> nijisanji

I think these are fitting names. In parenthesis since they're apparently unofficial, but I think this keeps it consistent with the hololive tags being hololive english and hololive indonesia while the nijisanji tags are nijisanji en, nijisanji kr, and nijisanji id. But not having these tags at all feels like if idolmaster (classic) were to not exist.

If the BUR succeeds, then the tags under hololive Japan in list of hololive units and subgroups should be implied to hololive japan.

BUR #43355 is pending approval.

create implication holostars_(japan) -> holostars

Holostars version.

notfrontloaded said:

BUR #43355 is pending approval.

create implication holostars_(japan) -> holostars

Holostars version.

Holostars only has a single sub-branch so holostars -holostars_english works.

wispydreamer said:

Holostars only has a single sub-branch so holostars -holostars_english works.

Yeah that slipped my mind. I think a parent tag should be ok too.

notfrontloaded said:

BUR #43355 is pending approval.

create implication holostars_(japan) -> holostars

Holostars version.

I gave this a (:l) at first but the more I think about it the more strongly I feel in favour of all of these main branch tags. Just because a company confusingly uses one name as both a specific branch and an umbrella term, that's no reason for us to do the same if it causes even minor problems. We only have 80ish Holostars crossovers but you should be able to search for them. I can only find 2 Vspo! crossovers but I'd even give Vspo JP a tag, what's the downside?

fairn said:

I gave this a (:l) at first but the more I think about it the more strongly I feel in favour of all of these main branch tags. Just because a company confusingly uses one name as both a specific branch and an umbrella term, that's no reason for us to do the same if it causes even minor problems. We only have 80ish Holostars crossovers but you should be able to search for them. I can only find 2 Vspo! crossovers but I'd even give Vspo JP a tag, what's the downside?

I agree but I think you responded to the wrong forum post.
And I feel that there is a decent chance of new holostars branch in the future, but there's probably no need to premeptively create a parent tag for holostars.
Edit: Idk why I mehed my BUR. Holostars has subbranches.