Touhou 1M GET!

alias hypocrite -> hypocrisy

Posted under Tags

BUR #52538 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias hypocrite -> hypocrisy

Context: forum #392529, comment #2567964

There's been some dissatisfaction with the nuking of "You're The Last Person I Want To Hear That From!" and while I still believe it was justified, I think they do make some good points about hypocrite seeming a bit off for some of those posts. Reading the aforementioned comment inspired me to look into it, and I didn't know until now there was a belief that hypocrisy required intent. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a widely known way to describe hypocrisy without intent. However, I think tagging them with hypocrisy might have fewer objections than hypocrite. It focuses more on the action than the character while also allowing it to make sense on posts with things like hypocritical group messages (for example, a pro-environmental advertisement from a factory heavily polluting the air).

BUR #52539 has been rejected.

create alias hypocrite -> you're_the_last_person_i_want_to_hear_that_from!

Alternatively, we could change the tag to the old pool name, but I don't think we need a tag name that long. If there's a one- or two-word term that is close enough to the actual concept, then that term should be used instead. I'm just proposing this as a fallback since it's still a somewhat viable option in case neither hypocrite nor hypocrisy fit.

Blank_User said:

BUR #52538 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias hypocrite -> hypocrisy

Context: forum #392529, comment #2567964

There's been some dissatisfaction with the nuking of "You're The Last Person I Want To Hear That From!" and while I still believe it was justified, I think they do make some good points about hypocrite seeming a bit off for some of those posts. Reading the aforementioned comment inspired me to look into it, and I didn't know until now there was a belief that hypocrisy required intent. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a widely known way to describe hypocrisy without intent. However, I think tagging them with hypocrisy might have fewer objections than hypocrite. It focuses more on the action than the character while also allowing it to make sense on posts with things like hypocritical group messages (for example, a pro-environmental advertisement from a factory heavily polluting the air).

i don't think this fixes the underlying problem that the pool seems to have been originally meant for a ridiculous level of hypocrisy probably given some canonical information about the character and by calling the tag just "hypocrite" or "hypocrisy" the meaning has been watered down to the point that most taggers wouldn't even bother using the tag in first place

comment #2566264

blindVigil said:

That's extremely disappointing, because that pool wasn't just about being a hypocrite.

Blank_User said:

BUR #52539 has been rejected.

create alias hypocrite -> you're_the_last_person_i_want_to_hear_that_from!

Alternatively, we could change the tag to the old pool name, but I don't think we need a tag name that long. If there's a one- or two-word term that is close enough to the actual concept, then that term should be used instead. I'm just proposing this as a fallback since it's still a somewhat viable option in case neither hypocrite nor hypocrisy fit.

ok time to rename this garbage then

he_has_a_bad_attitude_towards_you.i'm_going_to_kill_him_(meme)
trying_to_absorb_some_of_their_lesbian_powers_via_osmosis_(meme)
one_copy_of_doom_eternal_/_animal_crossing:_new_horizons_please_(meme)
don't_ever_buy_no_weed_from_the_gas_station_bro_(meme)
he_is_unaware_of_what_is_occurring_on_his_head_(meme)
when_a_good_person_enters_your_life_in_a_bad_moment_(meme)

Blank_User said:

Those are specific memes with a specific template. That's completely different from what we're discussing here.

are they? i think "you are the last person i want to hear that from" is a very common and template saying in comedy anime.

by the way i believe a problem with the second bur is that you haven't unaliased hypocrite after aliasing it

i don't think it makes sense for "hypocrite" to be aliased to the whole phrase, but those posts belong to the phrase tag more. we'll have to un-alias that alias later if it passses

trapster77 said:

are they? i think "you are the last person i want to hear that from" is a very common and template saying in comedy anime.

But it's not a meme. The examples you listed have a specific structure. This one doesn't. It's closer to a trope if anything.

trapster77 said:

by the way i believe a problem with the second bur is that you haven't unaliased hypocrite after aliasing it

i don't think it makes sense for "hypocrite" to be aliased to the whole phrase, but those posts belong to the phrase tag more. we'll have to un-alias that alias later if it passses

What posts do you believe would qualify for hypocrite but not for the old pool?

Blank_User said:

But it's not a meme. The examples you listed have a specific structure. This one doesn't. It's closer to a trope if anything.

What posts do you believe would qualify for hypocrite but not for the old pool?

hypocrisy sounds like a bad thing

if i were to use a single word to describe these i would use "irony" instead of "hypocrisy"

This is a specific kind of irony, though. If we absorbed hypocrite into irony, it would just make them harder to search for. And it makes your argument for unaliasing hypocrite make even less sense since it would reduce the options users have for finding these posts for no reason, especially if it's renamed to the old pool name (not that I think there's actually a chance of that BUR passing).

Also, how is Momoi not being hypocritical in post #6250221?

Blank_User said:

This is a specific kind of irony, though. If we absorbed hypocrite into irony, it would just make them harder to search for. And it makes your argument for unaliasing hypocrite make even less sense since it would reduce the options users have for finding these posts for no reason, especially if it's renamed to the old pool name (not that I think there's actually a chance of that BUR passing).

Also, how is Momoi not being hypocritical in post #6250221?

i don't think people get called "hypocrites" over something like that

hypocrisy usually means doing something morally wrong. like saying you like "free speech" but doing everything in your power to suppress speech you don't like. that is hypocrisy because "free speech" is an ideology.

if there was an approver that wouldn't approve western artwork but would post it themselves then that too would be hypocrisy, because "western art doesn't belong on danbooru" is an ideology that they profess and force upon others but don't apply it to themselves

Momoi saying "you suck at this" while sucking at the game isn't ideological. it's stupid and funny. so i think if you had someone do something like this with you, you wouldn't call them an hypocrite you would call them an idiot (in a playful way)

if irony isn't a good tag, that's fine, but i don't think the original BUR is going to improve anything.

you found that some people didn't like how "You're The Last Person I Want To Hear That From!" is called "hypocrite" now and the solution you came up with was... changing it to the "hypocrisy"? idk if that's an improve or not, but i don't think the people who complained about it being changed to "hypocrite" are going to be satisfied with it changing to "hypocrisy". what they want is something that sounds like "You're The Last Person I Want To Hear That From!" and keeps the spirit of the pool

maybe ridiculous hypocrisy would be a better name if we are to insist on calling it hypocrisy?

trapster77 said:

BUR #52569 has been rejected.

create alias hypocrite -> hypocritical_humor

using american spelling instead because unintended humor already exists and it's more consistent that way

You're just making the definition narrower with BURs like this. If you don't think hypocrite or hypocrisy is an appropriate name for the concept of "person A criticizes person B for something that also applies to person A", then you need to come up with an equivalent term. That means something than includes non-humorous depictions as well.

I was never really on board with changing the tag to the old pool name, but I'm realizing now that it's an even worse idea than I thought since it would lump all hypocrite posts under a concept meant to be mostly humorous. While it's unlikely to cause any serious issues due to most posts under the tag being originally from the pool, it's still not a good way to handle it.

I don't think we need to split hairs over whether something is ideologically motivated or intentional for it to count. I still believe hypocrite is a decent way to sum up this particular trope for tagging purposes. The reason I suggested changing it to hypocrisy was, as I said before, to center the focus on the action rather than the person. It was never intended as a perfect solution to preserve the purity of the term.

1