supporting terror of your own citizens is so patriotic!!!
>Country votes in a president who promises to deport illegal immigrants. >The president starts deporting illegal immigrants. >Mind crumbles at the maddening revelation. >Follow ICE agents around in groups. >honk, scream and spit at ICE agents. >Crowd and block ICE agents when they are trying to catch illegal immigrants. >Threaten to and encourage others to murder ICE agents. >Try to resist or evade arrest by ICE when they decide to arrest you instead. AAAIIIIIAH THIS IS LITERALLY TERRORISM OPPRESSION, HOW COULD OUR OWN CITIZENS SUPPORT THIS AFTER WE CALLED THEM RACIST NAZI SCUM WHO DESERVE TO DIE?!
>Follow ICE agents around in groups. >honk, scream and spit at ICE agents. >Crowd and block ICE agents when they are trying to catch illegal immigrants. >Threaten to and encourage others to murder ICE agents. >Try to resist or evade arrest by ICE when they decide to arrest you instead. AAAIIIIIAH THIS IS LITERALLY NAZI TERRORISM OPPRESSION, HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO ME!?
I wonder what caused this result... Certainly not the illegal and barbaric methods of ICE, implemented there under the Trump administration.
It's not that I've “changed the topic”; you just need to apply your cause-and-effect reasoning.
You started on the topic of citizens supporting ICE despite their actions against other citizens, and then you talked about the reasons why those other citizens protest ICE. Two topics being related does not mean they are the same. Now please, ANSWER THE QUESTION: Can you understand why people would support ICE despite the apparent "terror of your own citizens".
You started on the topic of citizens supporting ICE despite their actions against other citizens, and then you talked about the reasons why those other citizens protest ICE. Two topics being related does not mean they are the same. Now please, ANSWER THE QUESTION: Can you understand why people would support ICE despite the apparent "terror of your own citizens".
I see how they support ICE, they do so much that YOU said YOURSELF a hour ago they're showing their support like this (citation): >Follow ICE agents around in groups. >honk, scream and spit at ICE agents. >Crowd and block ICE agents when they are trying to catch illegal immigrants. >Threaten to and encourage others to murder ICE agents.
I see how they support ICE, they do so much that YOU said YOURSELF a hour ago they're showing their support like this (citation): >Follow ICE agents around in groups. >honk, scream and spit at ICE agents. >Crowd and block ICE agents when they are trying to catch illegal immigrants. >Threaten to and encourage others to murder ICE agents.
That's exactly what support is, definitely.
The people doing that are obviously a small percentage of the American people? Regardless of what you think of Trump or ICE, I think we can at least not pretend that a few rioting groups speak for the entire population, and are obviously not who is being referred to when talking about people that support ICE. At least argue in good faith, or you're no better than the ones you're arguing with.
Are you just pretending to be obtuse? Obviously, people are not a monolith, and there are US citizens besides the protesters, some one whom support ICE. If you'd rather play rhetorical games then have a simple, honest conversation like some sort of reasonable adult, then you are a malicious actor and cannot expect to be taken seriously by anyone except the figurative choir.
The people doing that are obviously a small percentage of the American people? Regardless of what you think of Trump or ICE, I think we can at least not pretend that a few rioting groups speak for the entire population, and are obviously not who is being referred to when talking about people that support ICE. At least argue in good faith, or you're no better than the ones you're arguing with.
Okay, even if we don't take people's opinions into account, first of all, they contradicts themselves anyway, and secondly, ICE is a US federal agency, and it must do its job and comply with US law, rather than engaging in savage vigilante justice, shooting everyone in sight and capturing everyone in sight. Their work must be controlled, and not through the prism of “the president promised.”
even if we don't take people's opinions into account
But that is the subject I want to stick with. Please answer the question: Can you understand why people would support ICE despite the apparent "terror of your own citizens".
But that is the subject I want to stick with. Stop. Trying. To. Change. The. Subject. Answer the question: Can you understand why people would support ICE despite the apparent "terror of your own citizens".
Perhaps only religious fanatics and blind followers of the MAGA cult can actively support ICE in a situation where the US media space is filled with hatred towards them for a reason, and in this case, it is both in one person at the same time. And that girl who drew this work, is one of them. If ICE were doing its job properly, I would be confident and understand that they deserve the support and trust of the entire American people.
But why would you ask someone that on the first place? When the issue here was not initially about why someone would or would not support them?
wrweider64 said in comment #2576706: only religious fanatics and blind followers of the MAGA cult
So "no".
If ICE were doing its job properly
And there it is, the new tactic: Instead of declaring that any deportation is evil and fascist and so on and on (because that doesn't work anymore), you say it's okay so long as the deportations are done "properly". What you then do is make sure that ICE is not able to do its job "properly": You organize to harass and obstruct and frustrate ICE in doing their job, you whip each other up in a hysteria and encourage murdering ICE agents, and you secretly hope that tensions will rise high enough and that one of you will cause enough trouble that SOMEONE dies. If it's an ICE agent who dies, you celebrate. If it's one of your own, you make them a martyr and scream and cry that ICE agents are terrorist oppressor shitlords who aren't doing their jobs "PROPERLY", who must be stopped, defunded... whatever prevents deportations. And that anyone who supports ICE are evil "MAGA cultists" and must be put on a list and so on and so forth. Anything to prevent deportations.
It's not that hard to figure out. So people who support deportations are willing to give ICE the benefit of the doubt when shit happens to protestors.
the issue here was not initially about why someone would or would not support them?
"Of course, supporting terror of your own citizens is so patriotic!!!" - wrweider64, in the very first comment on this picture.
I kindly ask danbooru tourists crying about ICE to fuckoff.
No one gives a fuck about ideology here. The picture is of a good enough quality to be here, and that's it.
You are not changing the world by spamming on an anime imageboard's comments, nor are your idols drawing ICE agents getting murdered by capeshit characters (their works will forever be on display here for future generations to see, however :)
So "no". Why did you ask then if you put your own answer anyway?
And no, I'm not involved in this shit personally. And there is no need to attribute to me things that I did not say, like "celebrating and wishing the death". But this does not mean that illegal and harsh actions can be blindly justified just like this.
I'm, and we're from Europe, and we can clearly see what the current administration is turning the world's top country into, people are not dumb, at least not entirely. And it's not even only ICE thing.
Again, there is no need to attribute to me things that I did not do, that I did not say, and that I did not call for.
wrweider64 said in comment #2576726: Why did you ask then if you put your own answer anyway?
Put? Look, you clearly aren't willing to see things from the other side, or concede that ICE-supporters might not be completely retarded asshats (edit: Sorry, "blind maga cultists"- wouldn't want to put words in your mouth), which is what I was essentially asking about. So yeah, "no".
And no, I'm not involved in this shit personally. [...] there is no need to attribute to me things that I did not do, that I did not say, and that I did not call for.
It should be clear that I was not talking about you specifically, but in general about people opposed to ICE to the point of pretending that they "terrorize" US citizens.
this does not mean that illegal and harsh actions can be blindly justified just like this.
My previous little wall of text should show that such justifications are not blind. And I don't think you (personally or anti-ICE people in general) are really all that opposed to illegal or harsh actions, such as obstructing law enforcement and killing people who are for deportation (see people shooting at Trump, Kirk, years of violent anti-MAGA rhetoric and crimes, etc). It doesn't seem to be about such principles, just pro-immigration ideology.
@AlsoSprachOdin claimed in a comment the other day that ICE only kills protestors because the protestors are trying to get themselves killed to make ICE look bad. He likes licking ICE's jackboots too much to ever acknowledge any wrongdoing on their part.
@AlsoSprachOdin claimed in a comment the other day that ICE only kills protestors because the protestors are trying to get themselves killed to make ICE look bad
Please quote me properly. Besides, I wrote it in this thread too: "and you secretly hope that tensions will rise high enough and that one of you will cause enough trouble that SOMEONE dies." Obviously, it would be an exceeding tiny minority of people who actually want to die, even for their cause. To suggest all these protesters want to die is obviously absurd. Wanting someone ELSE to die for the cause is another matter, and I particularly think the people who organized these protests are absolutely that cynical.
Kaktus_Lata said in comment #2576743: He likes licking ICE's jackboots too much to ever acknowledge any wrongdoing on their part.
The agent who shot Renee Good should not have stepped in front of her car once she stopped backing up. There. On a more general note ICE agents sometimes make mistakes or maliciously break the law, just as individuals in any law enforcement agency. Not all of them are good nor all bad. That does not mean that the current criticism of ICE is not completely overblown for political reasons.
On a more general note ICE agents sometimes make mistakes or maliciously break the law, just as individuals in any law enforcement agency. Not all of them are good nor all bad. That does not mean that the current criticism of ICE is not completely overblown for political reasons.
I doubt you've met that many. But then again, they're probably more likely than not to think that deportations are a good idea, and maybe that's enough to make them bad people in your book.
The woman, who did not want to be identified because she fears for her safety, is a U.S. citizen and a resident of St. Peter. She told MPR News in an interview that she was out in the community in her car, tracking the movements of federal agents, and recording them on a dash cam.
She shared that video with MPR News. Agents in three vehicles began chasing her and trying to force her to pull over. Eventually they box her in, three agents get out of the car in front of her, with their guns drawn and they try to force her out of her vehicle.
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“Get out of the car! Get out of the car,” the agents scream at her repeatedly, while she calmly responds, “No. I will not get out of the car.”
While she's alone in the car, the woman can be heard talking with other observers on speaker phone and she tells them to call 911. The agents open the door, which unlocked automatically when she put the gearshift in park, they drag her out and force her to the ground. She said the agents were overly aggressive and physical as they pinned her down and handcuffed her, leaving her with multiple cuts, scrapes and bruises.
The woman’s husband eventually arrives and tries to intervene, and he made a separate recording of the interaction on his phone. He tells the agents not to search her car because they don't have a warrant and it would be an illegal search. The agents appear dismissive of his constitutional concerns.
"I'm not getting into the legality of everything," one agent responds tersely.
I doubt you've met that many. But then again, they're probably more likely than not to think that deportations are a good idea, and maybe that's enough to make them bad people in your book.
Oh, so I'm just supposed to ignore all the unconstitutional and criminal acts ICE is committing just because they're supposedly doing their job?
Oh, so I'm just supposed to ignore all the unconstitutional and criminal acts ICE is committing just because they're supposedly doing their job?
Now is that something I've suggested here or anywhere? I'll tell you what I think you should do. I think you should calm down and not assume the worst of me, for a start. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I do have some doubts about the openness of people's minds on this matter, and about your willingness to not treat me like scum and anything I say like radioactive cancer. So before I go any further on this, please just answer this: Do you consider it even remotely possible that I might be arguing in good faith here? Or that you might have overlooked something, bought into any small twisting of the truth or even, god forbid, be wrong about something in this whole matter? If not, maybe I'll just banter, maybe I'll play video games. But if you are capable of some humility and honesty we can talk.
Now is that something I've suggested here or anywhere? I'll tell you what I think you should do. I think you should calm down and not assume the worst of me, for a start. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I do have some doubts about the openness of people's minds on this matter, and about your willingness to not treat me like scum and anything I say like radioactive cancer. So before I go any further on this, please just answer this: Do you consider it even remotely possible that I might be arguing in good faith here? Or that you might have overlooked something, bought into any small twisting of the truth or even, god forbid, be wrong about something in this whole matter? If not, maybe I'll just banter, maybe I'll play video games. But if you are capable of some humility and honesty we can talk.
If anyone's twisting the truth then it's you, your little gestapo friends, and your pedophilic king.
More to the point, you find it too difficult to argue your position and you're unwilling to consider an opposing point of view. You're acting like a stereotypical bigot. Besides...
and your pedophilic king.
AlsoSprachOdin said in comment #2466397: I consider him a filthy centrist.
More to the point, you find it too difficult to argue your position and you're unwilling to consider an opposing point of view. You're acting like a stereotypical bigot.
I don't waste my time empathizing with bigots, fascists, and ICE apologists.
Even you can be wrong.
Center for you is still far right for normal people and in the end you still voted for that clown.
bunkhead said in comment #2577249: I don't waste my time empathizing with bigots, fascists, and ICE apologists.
I think when people ask how this or that atrocity could have occurred, how such rigid demonization of others could have been allowed by people, how incomprehensible and insensible it was that no one could just have tried to talk their differences out... that they are usually people like you, and oblivious to the irony that they are talking about people like themselves.
bunkhead said in comment #2577249: Center for you is still far right for normal people and in the end you still voted for that clown.
Center for me has been the left for the vast majority of history, and is still the left for the vast majority of the world. And I didn't vote for Trump. I couldn't. I'm not a burgerclap. So your prejudices are showing again: People talk about Americentrism, but I don't think it's all of the US that has this strange tendency to think theirs is THE ONLY culture and values, and that everyone is a burgerclap. I think it's mostly the major US metropolitan areas.
I think when people ask how this or that atrocity could have occurred, how such rigid demonization of others could have been allowed by people, how incomprehensible and insensible it was that no one could just have tried to talk their differences out... that they are usually people like you, and oblivious to the irony that they are talking about people like themselves.
We know how this happened, you and your fellow gestapo goons don't care about the law and constitution. So don't go talking about understanding the other side because you yourself don't want to.
Center for me has been the left for the vast majority of history, and is still the left for the vast majority of the world.
No, center is US government agents obeying US law and the US constitution. Which they don't if you didn't know by the way.
bunkhead said in comment #2577494: So don't go talking about understanding the other side because you yourself don't want to.
What have I said to indicate that? I should think I've been trying to encourage it. And I'm not the one explicitly rejecting empathy for other people. I asked if you were open to talking like a reasonable adult, and you responded with verbal bile.
bunkhead said in comment #2577494: center is US government agents obeying US law and the US constitution.
You are conflating centrism with lawfulness. I'm not saying either is good or bad, it's just an incorrect equation. The centrist position can absolutely be opposed to the law. I'm sure you yourself can think of a specific law or two. If you want to talk about disobeying the constitution, I'd think the ATF would be at the top of the list.
bunkhead said in comment #2577494: Which they don't if you didn't know by the way.
I dispute that they do so to a substantially greater degree than normal for law agencies and that the the high-profile instances of US citizens getting killed cannot be attributed to reasonable self defense, especially when taking the situation they are in into account.
What have I said to indicate that? I should think I've been trying to encourage it. And I'm not the one explicitly rejecting empathy for other people. I asked if you were open to talking like a reasonable adult, and you responded with verbal bile.
ICE's crimes are numerous and blatant and yet you don't even entertain the idea that they could be in the wrong. For the sole reason that they're getting rid of the illegals. You are the definition of a racist bigoted close-minded disingenuous fascist.
I dispute that they do so to a substantially greater degree than normal for law agencies.
They're committing so many crimes that their own lawyers are quitting in droves.
bunkhead said in comment #2577509: ICE's crimes [...] You are the definition etc
... aaaand you're changing the subject and reverting to name-calling. But how about instead of that, we stick to the subject and you answer the question: What have I said that indicates that I don't want to understand "the other side"?
AlsoSpeachOdin: "I just show my support toward an armed militia that target people I don't like, ethnic/gender minority, lefist, antifa[...]!
Why do you have be so mean? "
Again, before I answer this one, I'd like to know if this a rhetorical question or a real question. And if it's a real question, just to know how seriously I should take it, I'll ask you the same that I asked bunkhead: Do you consider it even remotely possible that I might be arguing in good faith here? Are you willing to consider to possibility that you yourself might have overlooked something, bought into any small twisting of the truth or might be wrong about something in this whole matter? And please don't put words in my mouth. I certainly never brought up ethnicity or gender. Nor do I think questioning accusations is the same as supporting (I do support deportations, but that's not been the subject). I don't mind having a real and honest talk, but if that's the way you intend to act, then I'd like you to admit so in advance. Because I think that's mean, and I'd like to know why YOU have to be so mean.
Is there some sort of Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy happening here but instead of Muhammad its ICE? He was probably ragebaiting just dont feed the trolls
@AlsoSprachOdin : No that because I don't care aboot what a facist have to say.
Oh right, you're that one. I guess another one chooses to boast about their unwillingness to listen to people they disagree with. It all rather confirms my opinion about leftists: claim to be the compassionate and tolerant ones, but it's all just superficial and any small test of those virtues reveals the exact opposite. If I'm wrong about that then someone, please, prove me wrong!
Oh right, you're that one. I guess another one chooses to boast about their unwillingness to listen to people they disagree with. It all rather confirms my opinion about leftists: claim to be the compassionate and tolerant ones, but it's all just superficial and any small test of those virtues reveals the exact opposite. If I'm wrong about that then someone, please, prove me wrong!
Toleration doesn't mean indulging disingenuous fascist incels and their poor attempts of conversion. And I already proved it - you don't want to engage with my point of ICE being gestapo thugs.
bunkhead said in comment #2577724: Toleration doesn't mean indulging disingenuous fascist incels and their poor attempts of conversion.
It does however mean not constantly spewing insults at people you disagree with.
bunkhead said in comment #2577724: And I already proved it - you don't want to engage with my point of ICE being gestapo thugs.
No, I was talking about proving me wrong about the character of left-wingers. And my actions or lack thereof don't reflect the character of left-wingers, surely you'll agree with me on that. And besides, that's the very first subject that you raised. You said you'd never seen a good one (I mean, I think that was supposed to imply that they were bad, that's certainly how I interpreted it). And I did engage with it. I said:
I doubt you've met that many. But then again, they're probably more likely than not to think that deportations are a good idea, and maybe that's enough to make them bad people in your book.
Now I am aware that you were not talking about your first comment, and I will absolutely talk to you further about the merits or demerits of ICE behavior, I promise. But you said in no uncertain terms that I am not willing to understand your position, and I do take exception to that because I feel like I've been trying very hard to engage with you. So, for the third time, I just want you to first answer my question: What did I say that indicated to you that I was unwilling to understand "the other side"? You can't claim that you were referring to my refusal to let you change the subject, because that was AFTER you made that claim about my unwillingness to understand. And if there isn't any reason, could you maybe just admit it? That you made one tiny, forgivable mistake? if you can't either point to something I've said or admit to a mistake, if it's a suspicion you can't let go of, then can you at least give me the benefit of the doubt? (I mean, I don't expect that you will, but I'll still give you the chance.) Then we can move back to discussing the character of ICE and its employees. But I want this point addressed first.
At least, don't claim that I'm unwilling to address your points if you're not willing to engage with mine.
bunkhead said in comment #2577790: See, you don't even so much as offer lip service to agreeing that ICE are criminals.
Because that would be dishonest of me, because I don't think that statement is true.
bunkhead said in comment #2577790: Why shouldn't I call you a close-minded bigot?
Why should I answer your question if you won't answer mine? I'm not going to ask it again. I've already asked it three times, and it is now clear that you will never answer it, simply because you have no good answer and you are unwilling to admit as much. And whereas I have no problem admitting that it is possible that I'm wrong about the underlying politics this was supposedly about, you never will. I can write comment after comment being as nice as possible and appealing to your better nature, and you will always respond by verbally spiting bile at me. Maybe that's because to you, any minuscule agreement with "the enemy" would be an unforgivable act of treason to "the cause". It would be like questioning the word of God in a deeply religious society, or questioning the party line in a communist one. There can be no nuance in such places, only dogma. That's how you know you're part of a group that's not interested in truth.
It seems unlikely you're even interested in right or wrong, otherwise I just don't think you would so consistently act with such petty and obtuse dishonesty.
If nothing else, thanks for confirming to me that my opinions about left-wingers continue to hold true.
Because that would be dishonest of me, because I don't think that statement is true.
You expect me to see your side but won't see mine, and you call me disingenuous? The hypocrisy!
It seems unlikely you're even interested in right or wrong, otherwise I just don't think you would so consistently act with such petty and obtuse dishonesty.
Excuse me? You're the one whose point is "they're doing their job so they can break as many laws as they want", don't start citing 'right and wrong' when you're clearly in the wrong.
You keep saying that, but you also keep refusing to answer my question about that.
I'm assuming the question you want answered is "why do Americans support ice?" And the answer is they don't. 63% of Americans disapprove of ice. Ice, in its current iteration, are a bunch of untrained thugs who do trumps bidding as his personal militia. Case in point Minneapolis where thousands of ice agents have been deployed there to pressure waltz into bending the proverbial knee.
The United States is such a great country that it requires a special type of law enforcement that focuses on deporting people that have skipped the legal process of entrance. Unfortunately for many and fortunately for some, it is not that effective.
Immigrants almost never immigrate to countries worse than theirs
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