dead ringer is ok, but spy-cicle and enforce is the two most fuck up weapons that Valve came up with. It ruined the game so badly. Wherever I found a spy using them, I instally switch to pyro.
Come on, guys. It's not that BAD.. Sure the Enforcer's cloak delay got nullified by the dead ringer, and the spy-cicle made him more resistant to the number 1 spy counter.. Wait, I'm treading the wrong way here..But that doesn't mean it completely ruin the whole game....right?
By the way, anyone noticed that Daiyousei is saying "AANG YA DAH!"?
DominoHarvard said: Come on, guys. It's not that BAD.. Sure the Enforcer's cloak delay got nullified by the dead ringer, and the spy-cicle made him more resistant to the number 1 spy counter.. Wait, I'm treading the wrong way here..But that doesn't mean it completely ruin the whole game....right?
By the way, anyone noticed that Daiyousei is saying "AANG YA DAH!"?
It promotes bad Spy play. Maybe it's not my place to say it, but the Spy should be spreading confusion through the enemy team and picking off key targets so that his team can attack. The Enforcer lets them kill most classes with two to three shots, the Dead Ringer nullifies the downside it has and allows for an easy escape, and the Spy-cicle lets them escape from Pyros, their hard counter, at the cost of losing the ability to backstab for fifteen seconds. But with the Enforcer, that's a moot point since it can pick off most classes in two or three shots.
Of course, I'm not saying the Spy shouldn't be able to defend themselves, but having high power and an easy getaway from their main counter irks me. You may as well play another class if you're going to gun people down.
Oh, and I spotted Daiyousei as well. Something about that phrase being popular in Japan or something.
Actually, that's quite true.. Even though the spy-cicle's victims turned frozen is *supposed* to be a drawback, the dead ringer will help him escape and move on to another different location. And the also the enforcer's drawback is completely covered by the dead ringer. In short, the Enforcer and Spy-cicle are very powerful when combined with the Dead Ringer, almost to the point of dependent to it. Wonder what would it be like if DR never existed in the first place, hmm.. :|
At least, that's what I think.. By the way, if I'm not mistaken, YA DAH has some "negative response" meaning in the Japanese Language,,so it's kinda appropriate in translation, in a sort of way..
DominoHarvard said: Actually, that's quite true.. Even though the spy-cicle's victims turned frozen is *supposed* to be a drawback, the dead ringer will help him escape and move on to another different location. And the also the enforcer's drawback is completely covered by the dead ringer. In short, the Enforcer and Spy-cicle are very powerful when combined with the Dead Ringer, almost to the point of dependent to it. Wonder what would it be like if DR never existed in the first place, hmm.. :|
At least, that's what I think..
The source of the problem of the "Easy Modo Spy" is and always has been the Enforcer. The default revolver was already a powerful gun that fit its role just fine in giving Spy enough firepower to defend himself while doing his job but also enough so he can't strictly (or even almost strictly) rely on it. The Enforcer is basically a Revolver+ in you're not really giving up much in exchange for 20% more power (even the IW and CND aren't effected by the cloak delay all that much).
The Spy-cicle is mainly a crutch with an unnecessary upside (silent kills, those ice statues don't tell you nearly as much as a kill feed does). It merely helps lesser players do better against Pyros while more skilled ones will typically skip over the SC.
Dead Ringer's mostly fine as it is. It's geared towards a different style of play and its usefulness is proportional to the skill of the Spy.
But as said, all three items together just promotes bad Spy playing and also allows the class to be braindead easy to play and annoying as hell to stop.
dpsiko said: The source of the problem of the "Easy Modo Spy" is and always has been the Enforcer. The default revolver was already a powerful gun that fit its role just fine in giving Spy enough firepower to defend himself while doing his job but also enough so he can't strictly (or even almost strictly) rely on it. The Enforcer is basically a Revolver+ in you're not really giving up much in exchange for 20% more power (even the IW and CND aren't effected by the cloak delay all that much).
Thankfully, the Enforcer's been changed so that it doesn't affect cloak time at all. Instead, it shoots slower, won't grant the damage bonus if you shoot whilst disguised, and has no random crits. It'll stop random one-shots on nearly half the classes, but time'll tell if Dr. Enforcicle can keep up.
Also, something relevant to this picture. Don't wanna go off topic :V
JakeBob said: Thankfully, the Enforcer's been changed so that it doesn't affect cloak time at all. Instead, it shoots slower, won't grant the damage bonus if you shoot whilst disguised, and has no random crits. It'll stop random one-shots on nearly half the classes, but time'll tell if Dr. Enforcicle can keep up.
Also, something relevant to this picture. Don't wanna go off topic :V
I think im the only one who like the old enforcer even though random crits would piss me off.
Joshua_Mai said: dead ringer is ok, but spy-cicle and enforce is the two most fuck up weapons that Valve came up with. It ruined the game so badly. Wherever I found a spy using them, I instally switch to pyro.
Pumpkin_Eater said: That's not how you hose a spycicle user.
If your able to predict were the spycicle user goes after cloak it can work out depending on your weapons but if he choices to gun you down with the enforcer yeah that can go wrong.
hoodrager said: If your able to predict were the spycicle user goes after cloak it can work out depending on your weapons but if he choices to gun you down with the enforcer yeah that can go wrong.
That's a pretty big if; spy-cicle is only good in the presence of pyros, so adding one more to the mix isn't going to be the thing that beats him. Scout with milk and basher, or pomson engie will ruin the spy's day and don't need to care about the cicle.
As a pyro, you can still spray around for a cicle spy, the sound your flames make are slightly different when hitting someone, and this also applies to spycicle.
That's it, now I want an inFAMOUS and touhou crossover more. With Cirno being Lucy Kuo and Flandre Scarlet being Nix. That Cirno dressed up as a suite spells out professionalism and ice powers!
mimeki said: As a pyro, you can still spray around for a cicle spy, the sound your flames make are slightly different when hitting someone, and this also applies to spycicle.
Yes, it by no means makes the spy pyro proof, and if the spy is bad and using the cicle as a crutch then he'll still be in big trouble. If it's a good spy that staggers his ringer and cicle activations he'll probably make it back to his teammates alive and kicking. CB'ing him can block the retreat, but then there's the chance he uses his two seconds of flame immunity to shoot the pyro to death.
redblueandgray said: that's where the pyros shotgun and axe come in, to kill the spy before he kills you or retreats.
Meanwhile, I love daiyousei as the heavy.
The pyro is a bad choice against a spicicle spy primarily because in the heat of battle, he has no quick way to tag the run away spy anymore. Chasing a spy and trying to stay in the battle are much more annoying when a spicicle spy comes in, you'd be better off switching to Scout for the milk and tagging him that way...but then the Enforcer comes in.
The debuff did help, but still, anyone competent playing Easy Modo Spy just for trolls sake, WILL win most fights easier than if he went vanilla spy.
A veteran pyro can tell if a spy is using the stupid icicle, since the noise is very distinctive, and as long as the spy keeps getting hit, his silhouette can still be seen. Most spycicle users don't generally survive an encounter with me when i play pyro, simply because the sound is a dead giveaway even on a chaotic battlefield; The puff of steam helps too. This isn't to say that the spycicle isn't easy modo, just that it's not quite as godly as everyone is making it seem.
