Looks like Nagato will have some competition in chibiDestroyer carrying capacity.

As Kongou is from England, technically she is a foreigner too...

I wonder if the same is so for wo-class since she isn't a KanMusu?

I think that's why Kirishima has a headache - Kongou was built in the UK, Hibiki/Verniy/Dekabrist went to the USSR, Yukikaze/Tan Yang went to the ROC, and Wo is Wo.

279okshap said:

I think that's why Kirishima has a headache - Kongou was built in the UK, Hibiki/Verniy/Dekabrist went to the USSR, Yukikaze/Tan Yang went to the ROC, and Wo is Wo.

Wo-class = USS Enterprise (Yorktown-class)?

NNescio said:

Wo-class = USS Enterprise (Yorktown-class)?

nah, Wo's luck stat is low, Enterprise is called as "Lucky E" with a reason you know

AizuRen said:

nah, Wo's luck stat is low, Enterprise is called as "Lucky E" with a reason you know

Though she is called as the "grey ghost".

Also it's not being very lucky to received two serious damages in a row (both Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz), she's lucky enough to fix those damages thanks to her magnificent damage-control crew, she was also hit by a friendly fire, and hit by a kamikaze plane which totally put her out of commission. And beside her aircraft can operate during night, same as Wo-chan.

Lunatic6 said:

Though she is called as the "grey ghost".

Also it's not being very lucky to received two serious damages in a row (both Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz), she's lucky enough to fix those damages thanks to her magnificent damage-control crew, she was also hit by a friendly fire, and hit by a kamikaze plane which totally put her out of commission. And beside her aircraft can operate during night, same as Wo-chan.

Grey Ghost is a sign of luck, honestly. The Big E was the Lucky Star of the US Navy; it was said that as long as the Enterprise remained afloat that there was no way that the Americans could lose.
Also, the Kamikaze didn't 'totally put her out of commission', it caused her to need repair which she was undergoing when the war ended.
She ended her life in top condition, just obsolete.

Also, every single WW2 US CV was capable of Night Operations. Yes, every single one, escort carriers and light carriers included.
Enterprise was just the only one specialized for it... however, she was only as good at it as the Essex-class.

Is there any special equipments needed to launch at night ?
Or the older carriers don't have light on the deck ?

There's no problem launching at night, the big problem is to find your way within the darkness. F6F-5N Hellcat fighters are equipped with an AN/APS-6 radar which they used to detect their targets and their base carriers during night. The carriers use whatever radar they have to detect these aircraft which are flying by night (am I right grand zero?)

Illuminating ships in WW2 is always at extreme risk to submarine attacks.

Seika said:

Is there any special equipments needed to launch at night ?
Or the older carriers don't have light on the deck ?

As Lunatic6 said, no.
In fact, I've read that the original Japanese CV crews were good enough to launch their planes blindfolded, and they were incapable of night operation.

Where the IJN had issues was their CVs AA and Anti-DD/CA capabilities, once they lit up they usually started coming under fire within a very few minutes (the US fleet could see the carriers).

Lunatic6 said:

There's no problem launching at night, the big problem is to find your way within the darkness. F6F-5N Hellcat fighters are equipped with an AN/APS-6 radar which they used to detect their targets and their base carriers during night. The carriers use whatever radar they have to detect these aircraft which are flying by night (am I right grand zero?)

Pretty much, yeah.
No corrections, but I have a few additions, if I may be so bold.

What made Enterprise (in her Night Ops form) and the Essexs 'special' was their extremely powerful (for the time) radar and radio equipment; which also consumed several times the space that was considered normal back then (Big E got part of her crew space cut out when they added it all in).
This equipment afforded them not only extremely reliable communication with their aircraft (which is paramount for any pilot's survival), but also allowed them to send and receive information directly to and from the plane's radar unit itself.
What this basically did (like usual, my knowledge of the technical side of this is lacking) was make it so that the planes always knew exactly where their allied carriers were, their heading, and their speed; so, between this and the flight control talking them through it, they could basically land the plane entirely blind to the world outside their cockpit.

All other American CVs had superior Radio technology (light carriers and less were incapable of holding the much larger Transmitter units and Computers to allow for the coordination with the plane's radar).

When all else failed?
As the famous order went "TURN ON THE LIGHTS!!!", but few people remember the gunnery officer's slightly more comical response - "Boys, man the guns! None of us leaves here a virgin tonight!"

Lunatic6 said:

Illuminating ships in WW2 is always at extreme risk to submarine attacks.

Well, it was actually more an issue with Destroyers and Cruisers turning the carrier into swiss cheese.
While it's true that Submarines could roughly locate a CV through the Searchlights reflections off the clouds (if they're at a distance), the Americans weren't actually too concerned about that, as they placed a great deal of faith in their ASW screens.
Our Sonar was about 6 or 7 times better than the IJNs, so we merely assumed that we'd see them coming and have time to react.
Of course, that came to bite us in the rear with the loss of the Yorktown; but after that our ASW just became that much better - we started deploying Submarines to hide under the CVs (wearing 'em like a hat).

Ya know, since we thought that one of the best ways to kill a sub was with a sub. Crazy talk, right?
(LOL. Back then, it was considered as such by the IJN. They didn't catch on to what we were doing until 1945.)

Underwater, in optimum conditions (no wreckage or clutter in the water; basically a typical deep blue operation), our boats could hear a typical noisy IJN Submarine coming at roughly 35 nmi.
That's the problems with a sub that gets hot enough through basic operation that it boils the water that it passes through. In contrast, all US subs were entirely cooled, especially the engine and motor rooms, meaning very little environmental noise (for the time, sonar just wasn't that good yet).

In fact, the Japanese also developed fighter aircraft which are capable of night operation during the last stages of war, the D4Y2-S Suisei Model 12E Fighter, they will use them to intercept B-29 bombers (which is impossible because of the B-29s high ceiling rate), though they lack an adequate radar for night interception.

There are others like the D4Y3 Suisei Model 33 night-fighter and C6N1 Saiun Model 11 night-fighter.

Once these aircraft were introduce in the game, the carrier kanmusu could finally conduct night operations.

Lunatic6 said:

In fact, the Japanese also developed fighter aircraft which are capable of night operation during the last stages of war, the D4Y2-S Suisei Model 12E Fighter, they will use them to intercept B-29 bombers (which is impossible because of the B-29s high ceiling rate), though they lack an adequate radar for night interception.

There are others like the D4Y3 Suisei Model 33 night-fighter and C6N1 Saiun Model 11 night-fighter.

Once these aircraft were introduce in the game, the carrier kanmusu could finally conduct night operations.

If I recall, neither the Suisei nor the Saiun night-fighter versions were naval regulation aircraft; as in they weren't optimal for use on a carrier. Nevertheless, by then, Japan had more things to worry about than developing carrier aircraft. Much of the IJN was already sent to the bottom, and what carriers they had left were holed up in ports.

MooCow21 said:

If I recall, neither the Suisei nor the Saiun night-fighter versions were naval regulation aircraft; as in they weren't optimal for use on a carrier.

That so, well that's too bad... it seems that IJN carrier kanmusus will not gain night combat capabilities unlike the USN carriers, if ever the staff decided to introduce them in the game though.

Note: Not playing the game.

Actually, a big part of the problem was not so much that the carriers couldn't operate at night as much as it was that the aircraft couldn't. Planes without radar would get lost if they went outside visual range of their carrier.

The primary hurdle was their bulk and weight - early war planes mostly weren't powerful enough to carry that much extra bulk. After 1943, with the Hellcat, that changed, but the English had night-flying aircraft at the start of the war in 1939.

The swordfish torpedo bomber was hopelessly outdated for a day-flying aircraft. (It was a BIPLANE!) But because its slow ass could haul a radar in the extra seat, it could operate at night when no other carrier-based aircraft could. This meant it was doing torpedo bombing runs when no superiority fighter could sortie to shoot it down.

Ironically, this meant that the British in the Indian Ocean were the masters of night fighting, advancing in the night, and retreating in the day to superior daytime Japanese gun ranges. The Japanese only adopted night-fighting tactics against the Americans who couldn't operate aircraft at night, yet. (Making rat runs or charging American ships to knife-fight ranges to negate American air cover.)

The British also had the first armored carriers (and the only ones that mattered in the war). This was because they were expected to sail in European waters, where they would be in bombing range of land-based aircraft all the time. Compared to American carriers, which needed to repair after taking a couple bomb hits before they could launch planes again on easily-splintered wooden decks, or the Japanese carriers that just flat-out exploded if anything looked at them funny, they were extremely hardy, if fairly small in air complement.

Honestly, I'd look forward to an HMS Victorious entering the game...

NWSiaCB said:

Actually, a big part of the problem was not so much that the carriers couldn't operate at night as much as it was that the aircraft couldn't. Planes without radar would get lost if they went outside visual range of their carrier.

The primary hurdle was their bulk and weight - early war planes mostly weren't powerful enough to carry that much extra bulk. After 1943, with the Hellcat, that changed, but the English had night-flying aircraft at the start of the war in 1939.

The swordfish torpedo bomber was hopelessly outdated for a day-flying aircraft. (It was a BIPLANE!) But because its slow ass could haul a radar in the extra seat, it could operate at night when no other carrier-based aircraft could. This meant it was doing torpedo bombing runs when no superiority fighter could sortie to shoot it down.

Ironically, this meant that the British in the Indian Ocean were the masters of night fighting, advancing in the night, and retreating in the day to superior daytime Japanese gun ranges. The Japanese only adopted night-fighting tactics against the Americans who couldn't operate aircraft at night, yet. (Making rat runs or charging American ships to knife-fight ranges to negate American air cover.)

The British also had the first armored carriers (and the only ones that mattered in the war). This was because they were expected to sail in European waters, where they would be in bombing range of land-based aircraft all the time. Compared to American carriers, which needed to repair after taking a couple bomb hits before they could launch planes again on easily-splintered wooden decks, or the Japanese carriers that just flat-out exploded if anything looked at them funny, they were extremely hardy, if fairly small in air complement.

Honestly, I'd look forward to an HMS Victorious entering the game...

I expect her to carry an English longbow.

(and maybe a claymore.)

NNescio said:

I expect her to carry an English longbow.

(and maybe a claymore.)

Plus some Woad warpaint?

NNescio said:

I expect her to carry an English longbow.

(and maybe a claymore.)

Astana said:

Plus some Woad warpaint?

Only if she's Celtic. Woad was used by the Gauls and Celts. Really, if she's carrying a Welsh Longbow (Yes, the so-called "English" Longbow was in fact, made in WALES), then she's at LEAST passed that stage. Not to mention the two-handed Claymore was a Scottish sword, while Britain prefers the sabre *ESPECIALLY* in the Navy. If anything, I'd expect something like fujibejifu's HMS Illustrious design here, post #1763867 just with a longbow rather than a light crossbow.

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