Although they are not, most of the time you see Áo Dài, they are fitted to the wearer's body, well, modern women's are anyways. And if you find an article somewhere mentioning Áo Dài, you would also, most likely to find them hinting that Áo Dài is a kind of fitted clothes.
Well, aside from acting, cosplay(?), only women wear them these days so that is pretty normal.
'Are'? 'Weren't', you mean. most modern updates of traditional dress are tight fitted for whatever reason.
I don't know about others, but what he stated was true. Well, was, until the French came that is. By Western culture's influence, it started to mordernized, well, by the idea showing the bodily curves, I guess. And because it served as clothing for the wealthy (women) at the time, of course it got fitted. Before that, you would see in documents that it was actually males that wore this kind of clothing, of course, those were males ones, but the costume is now for women only.
Aarick said:
You forgot celebrations/festivities. I've got one myself. <- viet
I was talking about male ones. There are hardly any guy actually wear Áo Dài in festivities, don't you agree? Well, not that there isn't. And to be exact, the male ones aren't even called "Áo Dài" at all so my point stand true.
By the way, I'm also a Vietnamese and I actually had to write an essay about Áo Dài before so I, though do not own a set of it, do know quite a number about it.
I was talking about male ones. There are hardly any guy actually wear Áo Dài in festivities, don't you agree? Well, not that there isn't. And to be exact, the male ones aren't even called "Áo Dài" at all so my point stand true.
By the way, I'm also a Vietnamese and I actually had to write an essay about Áo Dài before so I, though do not own a set of it, do know quite a number about it.
I've asked my mother about it, for men it is also called Áo Dài (you just have to precise if it's for men or women). I remember wearing a blue one with a hat for a marriage when I was young. Girls had a pink or red one.
Oh yeah, I'm a vietnamese too but born in France so I don't have pur knowledge about Vietnam nor can read it (I can at least speak it, it's necessary when your family speak only in their native language xD).
I've asked my mother about it, for men it is also called Áo Dài (you just have to precise if it's for men or women). I remember wearing a blue one with a hat for a marriage when I was young. Girls had a pink or red one.
Oh yeah, I'm a vietnamese too but born in France so I don't have pur knowledge about Vietnam nor can read it (I can at least speak it, it's necessary when your family speak only in their native language xD).
Wow. I'm honored to actually have the same(?) nationality as you.
Regarding the names, as I stated, they are both considered Áo Dài but the term is now more likely supposed to refer to women's ones. THe male ones are more correctly, if I didn't confuse the word, supposed to be called Áo Thụng, literally means "free-fall cloth"(?) or the one in wedding, traditional ones, Áo The, the hat is called Khăn Xếp and I don't quite understand those words in Vietnamese enough to make a literal translation of those.
Well, if I learnt one thing in Linguistic classes, it's that the "science" is never the same, not because we don't know of what's already there but because it keeps getting added new things and losing old things. Who knows if I'm still correct right now since that essay I wrote was about more than 9 years ago already.
Regarding the names, as I stated, they are both considered Áo Dài but the term is now more likely supposed to refer to women's ones. THe male ones are more correctly, if I didn't confuse the word, supposed to be called Áo Thụng, literally means "free-fall cloth"(?) or the one in wedding, traditional ones, Áo The, the hat is called Khăn Xếp and I don't quite understand those words in Vietnamese enough to make a literal translation of those.
Well, if I learnt one thing in Linguistic classes, it's that the "science" is never the same, not because we don't know of what's already there but because it keeps getting added new things and losing old things. Who knows if I'm still correct right now since that essay I wrote was about more than 9 years ago already.
Let me just add in my aunt makes these for a living back in Đà Lạt, so I too do know a bit on these things and I've consulted my mother on this to be sure.
Áo Thụng is a different type of clothing all together, like T-shirts. As firechikara pointed out, it's still called áo dài, except you add in "nam" for male emphasis. i.e." áo dài cho nam", a long dress for men. It's just that Áo Dài itself has become something of a classification for the tunic-style of dress and you will hear men and women use it in speech.
BUT the proper name for the men's style of clothing is called áo gấm, which means "loose", so "loose outfit", in contrast to the women's which is meant fitted to accentuate their curves and feminine body.
As for Áo The, it isn't wrong,it's just a different style that's made thinner and showcases a thinner, gossamer-like layer over an inner one, and can be worn by both sex but, as with the áo dài, is worn more commonly by women.
Celebration wise, a LOT of men wear them during festivities, more common than suits because of how it represents tradition and is considered Vietnam's signature outfit.
as a little bonus, Khăn Xếp means "folded cloth" or lit., "cloth fold", hence the design of the hat :)
I'm sorry if it seemed like a rant but I'm pretty passionate about these sorts of things, ya know! I was really disconnected from vietnamese culture when I was young up so I put in a lot of time into the vietnamese community around colorado to make up for it xP Not pointing fingers saying who's right and wrong, just tossing in the info I know and helping people learn a bit more.
Woah, forgotten 9 year old knowledge can be no match for a passion knowledge indeed.
Although, I still don't quite believe you can group the male tunic into "Áo Dài", because, as I stated, the word is now used to indicate female ones instead of a kind for both sex. SOrry, I learnt a little in Linguistic class and now am obsessed with using the right word with the right meaning.
That said, the word Áo Gấm actually means the material it's made of instead of it being loose or not. And gấm should be something around brocade fabric, if I'm not too wrong, which was an expensive kind of fabric back when there were only male "áo dài" and only worn by landlords (males). But well, that's another story. NOw that you provided the word, allow me to rephrase the literal translation on Áo Thụng to "loose fall dress" although it's considered upperwear to be called Áo.
Edit: We have come quite a way from my comment on the outfit is a little loose on Akebono, haven't we? So far even one of my comments on this post get down voted.
Woah, forgotten 9 year old knowledge can be no match for a passion knowledge indeed.
Although, I still don't quite believe you can group the male tunic into "Áo Dài", because, as I stated, the word is now used to indicate female ones instead of a kind for both sex. SOrry, I learnt a little in Linguistic class and now am obsessed with using the right word with the right meaning.
That said, the word Áo Gấm actually means the material it's made of instead of it being loose or not. And gấm should be something around brocade fabric, if I'm not too wrong, which was an expensive kind of fabric back when there were only male "áo dài" and only worn by landlords (males). But well, that's another story. NOw that you provided the word, allow me to rephrase the literal translation on Áo Thụng to "loose fall dress" although it's considered upperwear to be called Áo.
using Áo Dài as a classification is slightly odd for both, now that I'm thinking on it, especially since the name itself refers to it being a long outfit for women. But what I have noticed is that there are some people that will just call it an "áo dài cho nam". It works I guess if they use it as such. But yeah, grouping them together when the name itself is meant to be for a women's outfit and when men have their own is a bit odd.
And yes, gấm is brocade XD i was confusing the word with the one for loose because of the somewhat similar pronunciation between the two. My "g" pronunciation isn't perfect and sometimes will slant into an "l", hence my own confusion there, sorry. Though the pitch in the words are also different...so I don't know what happened there.
Actually going back to Akebono herself, I think it looks a bit loose because she's got a small frame compared to the larger ships haha.
Actually going back to Akebono herself, I think it looks a bit loose because she's got a small frame compared to the larger ships haha.
Finally, someone other than myself commented back on this image! I'm crying tears of joy!
That said, back to our debate, well, I'm just going to say "áo dài cho nam" is a description rather than a name, as far as my Vietnamese grammar can apply. That's because most people don't know the official name and Vietnamese is quite a flexible language to take description and make it a name. It might give you a hard time trying to find what it's called officially, if you are looking for a single term that is.
I'm just going to say "áo dài cho nam" is a description rather than a name, as far as my Vietnamese grammar can apply. That's because most people don't know the official name and Vietnamese is quite a flexible language to take description and make it a name. It might give you a hard time trying to find what it's called officially, if you are looking for a single term that is.
Very true. Most people tend to forgo the official name and tend to just use descriptions and just use that instead. It's no wonder there's always some confusion.
yep, "Ao Dai" just like "Pho", a famous traditional word, no need to trans it. Btw, they're popular here (France), asian girl look good on that.
Most of us, the native speakers I mean, seem to be afraid that non-Vietnamese speaker wouldn't understand so they keep finding a way to translate those into English, is the actual problem though. And I have been saying "literal", just to imagine them, because they are not quite the well known "Áo Dài".
Truth to be told though, the girls over here complain about the outfit more than talk about how they like it. It's popular in France is probably only because no one over there has to wear them everyday.
