Mahjong is like rocket surgery to me, so is this a draw?

Saladofstones said:

Mahjong is like rocket surgery to me, so is this a draw?

Yep.

Well, anyone who can win (is in tenpai) gets points off anybody that can't (noten); so it's almost a draw. Basically, it's 3,000 points in total going from the losers to the winners.

Also, there's also a possible way to 'win' at ryuukyoku if you discard only honors (the Wind and Dragon tiles) and terminals (1 and 9s from three suits). This is known as Nagashi Mangan (so it awards 12000/8000 like a standard mangan).

Usually there are additional restrictions depending on the rules, such as requiring you not calling any tiles (pon/chii/kan and maybe self-ankan) and none of your opponents calling any of your tiles either... so, this is a very hard 'hand' to achieve.

Achieving Nagashi Mangan doesn't care about the state of your hand at ryuukyoku -- it can be in tenpai or a crap hand that has no way of winning normally, but you will still get the Mangan so long as you fulfill the conditions stated above.

I think I've gotten nagashi mangan once, in nearly 15 years of playing mahjong. A canny player should be able to tell that you're going for it and stop you close to the end if they feel that they can't win off what they have. You can ankan, as it's contingent on both you not opening your hand at any time, and nobody eating off you - as ankan does not open your hand, then it's fine. Ankan can only be self - one cannot have a closed kan off someone else.

You also have to note that nagashi mangan is an odd mangan in that you cannot combine it with anything else - which is more a factor of not actually having a complete hand than anything else.

Paracite said:

I think I've gotten nagashi mangan once, in nearly 15 years of playing mahjong. A canny player should be able to tell that you're going for it and stop you close to the end if they feel that they can't win off what they have. You can ankan, as it's contingent on both you not opening your hand at any time, and nobody eating off you - as ankan does not open your hand, then it's fine. Ankan can only be self - one cannot have a closed kan off someone else.

You also have to note that nagashi mangan is an odd mangan in that you cannot combine it with anything else - which is more a factor of not actually having a complete hand than anything else.

I've heard of some rules where you're not even allowed to make calls (naki), and ankan does count as one.

Side note, what happens when two players get nagashi mangan? Both get paid 12000/8000 (including by the other guy with nagashi mangan)?

Always played by Toudai rules, so ankan was fine. Kinda of a dick move to not even let you have a closed kan for nagashi, since you're technically not eating a tile.

Two players get nagashi? It'd be the same as just double ron, as nagashi mangan counts as a regular mangan for point distribution purposes.