It's oekaki... I think there is kind of gentlemen's agreement here that oekaki quality approval standards ars lower than overall one. Saying that, this one fails even oekaki standards.
Wait up here. You had a major issue with post #559811 being not Danbooru-worthy (which is at least well drawn, even if it is bland moe), but this somehow makes the grade?
Also I find it hard to understand how this is not poorly drawn when I can actually see the MS Paint elipse tool being used in its creation. I actually have a hard time even considering this oekaki.
Shinjidude said: Wait up here. You had a major issue with post #559811 being not Danbooru-worthy (which is at least well drawn, even if it is bland moe), but this somehow makes the grade?
Of course. post #559811 is bullshit mass-produced copypasta we have shitloads of. This is actually well-drawn, with exactly the pixels it needs to have. You're confusing deliberately simplified and schematic sketch fitting a certain parodistic theme with QUALITY. And while you're at it, you're also confusing bland, repetitive "I've done it a million times" reproduction full of photoshop with being actually well drawn. I hate when people do this, because it proves the validity of "no skill, all drill" business model calculated for mass appeal.
Do you also complain when they serve you steak tartare raw, let's go to McDonald's at least they know how to fry their meat?
Shinjidude said: You seem to like crappy quality pokémon, don't you, Hazuki? Brings to mind post #458018.
This one I am sure is kept because it is funny. Can you honestly say that it is not hilarious in some deranged way? I've shown it to many people and they have simply died laughing. This "beedrill" however...well...I've drawn better beedrill in 3rd grade...and I ain't no artist lol
I understand your issue with "bland moe crap", but just because something is formulated doesn't make it technically flawed. For example there is a difference in quality between that post and most game_cgs that would cause me to be more lenient to the former vs the latter.
As for this post, I was unaware that it was a part of some series. Either it's quite obscure, or at least I never came across it.
I also still fail to see the appeal, even chibified pokémon can be given more polish. Though that might feed back into the mass-produced crap you were refering to earlier.
I guess maybe you can argue that the unrefined MS Paint quality is what gives it it's charm. I can definitely see the appeal in simplicity or hand drawn sketches. But I have a very hard time calling this series "well-drawn" or associating it with gourmet food.
Shinjidude said: I understand your issue with "bland moe crap", but just because something is formulated doesn't make it technically flawed.
I never said that...
For example there is a difference in quality between that post and most game_cgs that would cause me to be more lenient to the former vs the latter.
...but it still doesn't make it any more interesting. It has all the artistic value of a pink flamingo. I'm sure you can get some nicely done pink flamingos. But they're still pink flamingos.
As for this post, I was unaware that it was a part of some series.
Neither was I before this huge storm. FWIW, I'm told it's a series of 4chan/i/ oekakis by an anonymous poster. So your claims about MS Paint ellipse tool would appear to be wildly wrong. Not that there's anything wrong with being able to see the ellipse tool, if that's the effect you want.
I also still fail to see the appeal, even chibified pokémon can be given more polish. Though that might feed back into the mass-produced crap you were refering to earlier.
But it already has all the polish it needs! What you're saying right now is no different from people taking a beautiful pencil sketch and uploading a version they coloured with flood fill because that makes it "finished". Or people adding a layer of horrible photoshop flares (preferably shaped into feathers) and some random text and then uploading it to animepaper.net. I'm sure they consider it improvement, and going by numbers, it'd seem the majority agrees. But it's still a crime against humanity.
This picture doesn't look the way it does because the author couldn't do any better. It's because he was good enough to make it look like that.
I guess maybe you can argue that the unrefined MS Paint quality is what gives it it's charm. I can definitely see the appeal in simplicity or hand drawn sketches. But I have a very hard time calling this series "well-drawn" or associating it with gourmet food.
And what exactly makes a glob of minced uncooked meat gourmet and not a glob of minced uncooked meat? You don't have to like it (I for one am not a huge fan, my being vegetarian aside), but you don't call the chef a hack and demand he prepare it properly and cook the meat. You don't have to consider this the best picture ever, but calling it poorly drawn when the author is clearly skilled and well aware of what they're doing is, umm, very much incorrect.
post #486696 is well-drawn. Or post #200281. Or most stuff under the mspaint_(medium) tag. Not this picture that someone's little sister shopped up in 30 seconds.
葉月 said: I'm sure you can get some nicely done pink flamingos. But they're still pink flamingos.
Yet people still go to the zoo to see them.
葉月 said: But it already has all the polish it needs! What you're saying right now is no different from people taking a beautiful pencil sketch and uploading a version they coloured with flood fill because that makes it "finished". Or people adding a layer of horrible photoshop flares (preferably shaped into feathers) and some random text and then uploading it to animepaper.net. I'm sure they consider it improvement, and going by numbers, it'd seem the majority agrees. But it's still a crime against humanity.
We actually agree here. While I certainly don't feel photoshop automatically ruins things, it can and often is taken too far. Also, I really like pencil sketches and oekaki, but I don't like this.
葉月 said: And what exactly makes a glob of minced uncooked meat gourmet and not a glob of minced uncooked meat?
If there is no difference between steak Tartare and ground beef fresh from McDonald's backroom, how can you tell the gourmet from the junk? It seems like a bit of a case of the "Emperor's New Clothes". It's good only because the artist says it is.
葉月 said: You don't have to consider this the best picture ever, but calling it poorly drawn when the author is clearly skilled and well aware of what they're doing is, umm, very much incorrect.
We're probably going to have to agree to disagree. It's probably presumptuous to say this, but I'm no artist, and I feel like I could probably do as well as this this. In all likelihood I'd probably fail mostly because I'm not quite sure what it is in this image that is so appealing to you.
For the record, I'm not the one who flagged this, but being apparently oblivious to the quality here, I couldn't condone re-approving it either.
Shinjidude said: Yet people still go to the zoo to see them.
I meant the plastic ones. I guess I failed at clarity here.
If there is no difference between steak Tartare and ground beef fresh from McDonald's backroom, how can you tell the gourmet from the junk? It seems like a bit of a case of the "Emperor's New Clothes". It's good only because the artist says it is.
Æh, it was supposed to be read as "if you don't have problems with believing that steak Tartare is gourmet food and not a half-done burger, why do you have such a hard time accepting that this picture can be very simple *and* well-drawn at the same time?"
We're probably going to have to agree to disagree. It's probably presumptuous to say this, but I'm no artist, and I feel like I could probably do as well as this this. In all likelihood I'd probably fail mostly because I'm not quite sure what it is in this image that is so appealing to you.
For the record, I'm not the one who flagged this, but being apparently oblivious to the quality here, I couldn't condone re-approving it either.
That seems like the only way out. And for the record, I know at least スラッシュ liked this pic, as I've consulted him before approving it, precisely because it doesn't have to appeal to everyone. So I know I'm not just pushing it against everyone else's opinion, and it so happens that I trust スラッシュ's taste completely.
Oh, and as sidenote, to answer another comment higher up: oekaki's standards are *not* lower. They're different. That's very much not the same.
Yeah, I got the pink flamingo bit, but it's hard to make the plastic ones sound appealing. There certainly is a market for mass-produced moe though.
Simple posts definitely can be well drawn and often are, but being simple in itself isn't sufficient to be well-drawn.
You are definitely right to say that not everything acceptable has to appeal to everyone. You probably know that better than most. This one just really jumped out at me as something way beyond my personal threshold for approval. I agree with you on the oekaki comment.
Anyway, I think I've said all that can be meaningfully said without rehashing things endlessly. I'll just leave this alone now and let the mod queue do its thing.
I just think this image is low in quality, period, regardless of medium. If the artist intended to make it low-quality in order to parody something, fine, but that doesn't elevate it to where I'd think it deserved to be posted to Danbooru. To be perfectly honest, I'm flabbergasted - and more than a little bit disappointed - that it was approved in the first place.
Yeah, I really don't think this is Danbooru quality. This will just reinforce the notion among users that the moderation is completely arbitrary. People are going to be confused about why this gets approved and their own shitty mspaints don't, and so will I, because even though I can appreciate the style, images of this level of skill and effort are a dime a dozen.
葉月 said: Of course. post #559811 is bullshit mass-produced copypasta we have shitloads of. This is actually well-drawn, with exactly the pixels it needs to have. You're confusing deliberately simplified and schematic sketch fitting a certain parodistic theme with QUALITY.
Just because it fits with that style doesn't mean it's Danbooru material. Those examples of the style you linked to aren't on Danbooru, and just because it's a deliberately crude MS Paint drawing doesn't change the fact that it's a crude MS Paint drawing.
I can see this as an occasion to make users more open-minded on what constitutes quality (lowercase), which is always good, but this is somewhat hardcore of an example for a first art class. You should do it slowly.
All I'm going to say is that the approval of this post has crippled my trust in the moderators' judgment of quality. Good thing I'm here for the translating.
At first glance, it's all kinds of unrefined, but getting a good look at it, one can see that's it's drawn badly [very] well. All the breaks in what should be smooth patterns are themselves done smoothly. However, is Danbooru about well-executed techniques, or good-looking images? I think this one would have to be in context in order to be rightly appreciated; on its own, it's just a disastrous beauty, like some second cousin to those "what the hell did they think they were doing?" abstract art pieces.
Soljashy said: All I'm going to say is that the approval of this post has crippled my trust in the moderators' judgment of quality. Good thing I'm here for the translating.
And contrary to that, the approval of this post has renewed my faith in the moderators' judgment.
Soljashy said: All I'm going to say is that the approval of this post has crippled my trust in the moderators' judgment of quality. Good thing I'm here for the translating.
Do people really not know what oekaki means? There's a difference between "Bad because the artist sucks" and "Deliberate style" I think it should be fairly obvious to spot where which picture belongs.
Reading through some of the discussion, one question comes to mind: What kind of art is Danbooru striving for to collect? The only mention of any answer to this (that I recal) is "high quality anime-related" as said in the Terms of Service. Based on that, I can consider this image to fit those conditions, but I think it may be useful to clarify the requirements of uploaded images a bit more to achieve some kind of a more set standard. And if not for anything else, then perhaps for avoiding such heated discussions in the future.
風鈴 said: Reading through some of the discussion, one question comes to mind: What kind of art is Danbooru striving for to collect? The only mention of any answer to this (that I recal) is "high quality anime-related" as said in the Terms of Service. Based on that, I can consider this image to fit those conditions
The issue is the "high quality" part. Which of course is problematic since it's a matter of opinion whether an image is "high quality"; that's exactly what's been argued about here.
richie said: Touhou ones.
Seems like it sometimes. Though actually Touhou is "only" about 19% of Danbooru's posts.
