Atlus did not write them dirty, Kanji is Bixesual or pansexuality, and Naoto is not Trans, she posed as a man just for her job, if you really wonder that about her, you haven't understood the character at all.

FollowOfBondage said:

Atlus did not write them dirty, Kanji is Bixesual or pansexuality, and Naoto is not Trans, she posed as a man just for her job, if you really wonder that about her, you haven't understood the character at all.

Eh, Naoto is debatable imo since she only starts presenting as female if you explicitly tell her that you prefer her being a girl.
Though the bigger problem with that part is that it's the required answer for getting to date her. Y'know, as opposed to accepting her the way she is.

They absolutely did not do Kanji dirty though, you are right about that.

FollowOfBondage said:

Atlus did not write them dirty, Kanji is Bixesual or pansexuality, and Naoto is not Trans, she posed as a man just for her job, if you really wonder that about her, you haven't understood the character at all.

Kanji is a hetrosexual man who's stigmatized for having a feminine hobby.
Naoto is a hetrosexual woman, who crossdresses because she sees Japanese police as Patriarchal, and they don't take her seriously. Not realizing they wouldn't take a 14 year old boy any more serious then her.

Neither are gay, trans bisexual or any other rainbow colors.

Incineration said:

Eh, Naoto is debatable imo since she only starts presenting as female if you explicitly tell her that you prefer her being a girl.
Though the bigger problem with that part is that it's the required answer for getting to date her. Y'know, as opposed to accepting her the way she is.

They absolutely did not do Kanji dirty though, you are right about that.

That's not entirely correct, keep in mind that Naoto has dressed and acted like a boy out of obligation for years.
So it is completely normal that she feels somewhat uncomfortable when she has to change her tone or wear women's clothing (although the latter is a Japanese thing since, not because you wear a skirt, you are more of a woman, but you are more feminine)
Our job is to try to get her to come out of her shell so she can show herself as she really is, a woman and a detective.

Update: I truly dont know what I say wrong to receive so many dislikes, but you probably haven't played the game, Persona 4 Golden or you haven't understood Naoto's SL at all

The only people doing these characters dirty are Twitter users that can't deal with the fact these characters were never intended to be anything other than cis het. Which is ironic, because you would think they would be all over Kanji's struggle with toxic masculinity and Naoto's struggle with patriarchal oppression. But no, they're not gay or trans, and that's absolutely unacceptable because the struggles of non-conforming heterosexuals don't matter.

Both Kanji and Naoto are not written to be lgbtq representative characters, there was no failing in that. Their stories and inner turmoil do touch upon the themes, but it's clearer the more you interact with them that their issue are not with these issues at face value but rather society stigmas and taboos that view their personal struggles as synonymous with these themes and they need to push past their fears of these societal expectations and be themselves a message which is obviously easy to identify with for those struggling with the themes themselves as much so as for those like them that are afraid of embracing the smaller concepts we naturally associate with them. Ironically in trying to force these concepts back upon them you're doing them both dirty and more or less validating their fears, rather than sympathizing with the shared struggle that is there.

If any character could be argued to be have done dirty by a lack of lgbtq representation it's actually Yosuke, who despite being basically openly homophobic towards Kanji for most of the game, despite Kanji's clear denial of being so, is the only character with a scrapped gay romance in any of the persona games. Also at the same time Persona is a product of the Japanese culture and it's philosophies, beliefs, and norms and the open acceptance of these concepts or even the very natures of the concepts them selves are not shared with the west and their conceptions of them and even much less so in 2008 when persona 4 first released it's not entirely fair to judge in that manner.

imperialpatches said:

Both Kanji and Naoto are not written to be lgbtq representative characters, there was no failing in that. Their stories and inner turmoil do touch upon the themes, but it's clearer the more you interact with them that their issue are not with these issues at face value but rather society stigmas and taboos that view their personal struggles as synonymous with these themes and they need to push past their fears of these societal expectations and be themselves a message which is obviously easy to identify with for those struggling with the themes themselves as much so as for those like them that are afraid of embracing the smaller concepts we naturally associate with them. Ironically in trying to force these concepts back upon them you're doing them both dirty and more or less validating their fears, rather than sympathizing with the shared struggle that is there.

If any character could be argued to be have done dirty by a lack of lgbtq representation it's actually Yosuke, who despite being basically openly homophobic towards Kanji for most of the game, despite Kanji's clear denial of being so, is the only character with a scrapped gay romance in any of the persona games. Also at the same time Persona is a product of the Japanese culture and it's philosophies, beliefs, and norms and the open acceptance of these concepts or even the very natures of the concepts them selves are not shared with the west and their conceptions of them and even much less so in 2008 when persona 4 first released it's not entirely fair to judge in that manner.

Yes. YES! Good heaven, that always annoyed me, that people misunderstood Kanji as homosexual when his story was that he only had effeminate hobbies and hated that. It's exactly what he wanted to avoid as a character, to be taken for a homosexual, and stupid people jumped in, ignored his story, and just tried to push their headcanon about him.
I didn't know that about Yosuke, though, that's kinda neat.

imperialpatches said:

Both Kanji and Naoto are not written to be lgbtq representative characters

It's twitter anything is fair game

This never should have posted here along with it being properly sourced without the artist permission. It's a cute picture, but it's just gonna invite hate to the artist from fanart they did years ago. Whatever your opinions or gripes are with these characters, please do not direct hate and leave nasty comments about the artist/to the artist

FRien said:
I didn't know that about Yosuke, though, that's kinda neat.

The unused Yusuke lines. The fact it got dubbed into English makes me wonder how far along they got before they ended up cutting this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ogh3mdPHsA

imperialpatches said:

Both Kanji and Naoto are not written to be lgbtq representative characters, there was no failing in that. Their stories and inner turmoil do touch upon the themes, but it's clearer the more you interact with them that their issue are not with these issues at face value but rather society stigmas and taboos that view their personal struggles as synonymous with these themes and they need to push past their fears of these societal expectations and be themselves a message which is obviously easy to identify with for those struggling with the themes themselves as much so as for those like them that are afraid of embracing the smaller concepts we naturally associate with them. Ironically in trying to force these concepts back upon them you're doing them both dirty and more or less validating their fears, rather than sympathizing with the shared struggle that is there.

EXACLY! 10/10 agreed with this!
I wish I could be as good with words to express myself as you. T.T

I really should know better than to look at the comments on anything LGBT related on this site lol.

PikaFan15 said:

I really should know better than to look at the comments on anything LGBT related on this site lol.

Or anywhere, tbh.

Disgusting

imperialpatches said:

Both Kanji and Naoto are not written to be lgbtq representative characters, there was no failing in that. Their stories and inner turmoil do touch upon the themes, but it's clearer the more you interact with them that their issue are not with these issues at face value but rather society stigmas and taboos that view their personal struggles as synonymous with these themes and they need to push past their fears of these societal expectations and be themselves a message which is obviously easy to identify with for those struggling with the themes themselves as much so as for those like them that are afraid of embracing the smaller concepts we naturally associate with them. Ironically in trying to force these concepts back upon them you're doing them both dirty and more or less validating their fears, rather than sympathizing with the shared struggle that is there.

If any character could be argued to be have done dirty by a lack of lgbtq representation it's actually Yosuke, who despite being basically openly homophobic towards Kanji for most of the game, despite Kanji's clear denial of being so, is the only character with a scrapped gay romance in any of the persona games. Also at the same time Persona is a product of the Japanese culture and it's philosophies, beliefs, and norms and the open acceptance of these concepts or even the very natures of the concepts them selves are not shared with the west and their conceptions of them and even much less so in 2008 when persona 4 first released it's not entirely fair to judge in that manner.

So yosuke gay? I didn't get that part

SpikeReyes said:

So yosuke gay? I didn't get that part

It was a planned thing, but it got scrapped, most likely due to being redundant with Kanji. Remnants of the old writing remain, but the canon is dubious at best if anyone wants to interpret it that way.

FollowOfBondage said:

That's not entirely correct, keep in mind that Naoto has dressed and acted like a boy out of obligation for years.
So it is completely normal that she feels somewhat uncomfortable when she has to change her tone or wear women's clothing (although the latter is a Japanese thing since, not because you wear a skirt, you are more of a woman, but you are more feminine)
Our job is to try to get her to come out of her shell so she can show herself as she really is, a woman and a detective.

Update: I truly dont know what I say wrong to receive so many dislikes, but you probably haven't played the game, Persona 4 Golden or you haven't understood Naoto's SL at all

Its cool, for some reason many just down voted everything.

cd_young said:

Kanji is a hetrosexual man who's stigmatized for having a feminine hobby.
Naoto is a hetrosexual woman, who crossdresses because she sees Japanese police as Patriarchal, and they don't take her seriously. Not realizing they wouldn't take a 14 year old boy any more serious then her.

Neither are gay, trans bisexual or any other rainbow colors.

Soo she dress as a dude to get treated better?

SpikeReyes said:

Soo she dress as a dude to get treated better?

More like, act like a guy, because she think that if she didnt do that the police department wont take her seriously.

Can’t wait for Revival to rekindle these flames. Unless they actually decide to make this completely clear and concise once and for all so that there’s no debate (there will STILL be debate).