Upload sniping / Uploading with few to no tags

Jarlath said:

I care a bit about being the uploader, but care more that I spent the three minutes getting to an acceptable taggi level and got sniped by someone who went with the artist name, character name, and copyright. And that's it.

If you care enough, then all you need to do is escalate and upload with fewer tags. Uploading is like capitalism, the ends justify the means. Upload it without any tags, which will append tagme by default. If your internet is fast, and your update alert timely, then you will get the image, and then you can tag it afterwards like what others are doing.

As of late I've been giving less of a crap about sniping since the status quo, going from the current discussion, seems to be that it's acceptable.

Truth be told, my gripe isn't with sniping directly (most users like the confidence of having their upload there first to then edit, I get it) but the side effects are my major gripe, which are hard to begin describing unless you collect numerous examples to outweigh the obvious occasional faults. It's either undertagging or mistagging from overtagging (just to, again, look like a 'good' uploader).

So over the past few days or so, I've started to be less mindful about it since I'm to believe my tagging is fairly accurate to begin with. Currently I only really do it at one specific half-hour of the day, and it looks like the benefits are showing themselves, even though I wish they didn't.

Mikaeri said:

Personally, I'll never jump on board that train, no matter how much my little inner devil whispers so tantalizingly into my ears. Call me a relic from an old age, but I have my pride. Pride doesn't feed families in real life, but this is Danbooru and a hobby. However I hobble myself - by not min-tagging or using the bookmarklet - I do what I want, the way I want, for my own self-satisfaction.

And, well, though I think min-tagging is an aberration that used to be given neg-reps when I was but a new Danbooru-ite, stay around long enough and you come to accept that uploading doesn't mean everything. Years ago I used to spend hours sorting through images and setting up tags for thirty to fifty uploads a day, every day. I still get a lot, most of the images I want, since I'm an aspiring 3D animation student who has nothing to do but sit at the computer, whether to work or play. That's really enough.

All that is left is for others to come to that same realization and conflicts should die down in time. Hopefully.

CodeKyuubi said:

I think min-tagging is an aberration that used to be given neg-reps when I was but a new Danbooru-ite, stay around long enough and you come to accept that uploading doesn't mean everything. Years ago I used to spend hours sorting through images and setting up tags for thirty to fifty uploads a day, every day. I still get a lot, most of the images I want, since I'm an aspiring 3D animation student who has nothing to do but sit at the computer, whether to work or play. That's really enough.

Yup.

I can't stand how anyone could be up for so long around a computer without doing something else on it. I have other hobbies that I do: anime, manga, novels, programming, devblogs, watching random cooking videos on YouTube, translation... To me, it's personally draining. Of course, I have notifications set up for a number of artists I like, but I've long accepted that I will most likely, perhaps almost never, upload quality content from them because they're scoured almost everywhere. The exception only follows for a very few.

So I put my main focus where it should belong -- updating artists that I know won't really get sniped in a matter of hours, minutes. It's a relaxing pastime that beats the rush of having to sit in front of a computer, pressing f5, watching a feed that ultimately will not change from the usual every day. The rest of my free time from that goes to shit I would otherwise feel much more thankful and fulfilled about, such as translating Hentai or writing new wiki pages for aspiring uploaders.

All that is left is for others to come to that same realization and conflicts should die down in time. Hopefully.

Well, it's always been a problem for the site to keep uploaders that genuinely want to contribute good, well-tagged art without having to resort to shitty, unpleasant methods. Eventually what it boils down to is only a few uploaders ever stay around because they either 1, are directly involved in the upload battles and don't give half the mind to stop, or 2, aren't, because they have different niches and/or are generally ambivalent.

I personally wish zeparoh would come back. He was a prime example of a user I held extremely high respect for -- I can't say much for a number of my peers. I will always look down negatively over users that throw feedbacks frivolously over aggressive behavior that shouldn't warrant a positive feedback to begin with. It was echoed in a previous forum post that I think went largely ignored.

EDIT: In the end, when it comes down to this kind of thing, I'm putting my happiness above others when I choose to 0-3tag something, because it eventually says to me "I could care less about how much effort you put in, I just want to feel good about having a good upload". It's a fairly unpleasant thought to come back to, but that is why I feel it's all the more necessary to make the changes for a truly nameless contributor base. It also provides no bias towards other users' uploads because of all that glory hunting.

Good thing that I already gave up with Pixiv sniper field. Better to spend my time in something else.

I just don't get how this topic gets bloated so much: You are complaining about image snipers and you can't stand how they use their time. Stop making such stupid assumptions about "image snipers". You have absolutely no idea how "they" use their time besides Danbooru.
That is the actual problem here: You are treating this like a topic that you are putting on a personal level: Attacking others and accusing them of bad tagging or that image sniping invokes bad tagging. At least the latter is horribly wrong. If you can't stand what "others" are doing with "their" time, then let "them" be. You don't have to care for "them".
Off course you can put your focus on something else and where you think it belongs. But that is something up to the uploader: They decide where their effort belongs to and fast uploading also has its benefits. If you can't see them, then you first have to understand it to make a point against this so called shitty behavior.
Speaking of shitty behavior: It is funny that this is coming from you, because you are doing the same thing, too: Uploading with 0 tags sometimes (I really hope you don't forget to remove "tagme" afterwards), but the point is: You are trying to make a point against something that you are already performing. This is backwards and hypocrisy: It seems to me that you are just sad of not getting the uploader's name next to an image, and your first paragraph directly implies this.
Just think about it and in the end, you will probably realize that this is an artificial problem, created by those, who can't get an upload or by those who are sad that their tagging work before went waste. In the end, we are an image storing site and the results are what count. That means: Is this image well tagged by the uploader and is the quality alright. The initial input of tags is pretty uninteresting for the purpose of this site, because it will change a few seconds later.
So...that is why it is also good that you are looking for backlogged stuff, because again: Image storing site. And effort belongs to every place here.

Provence said:

I just don't get how this topic gets bloated so much: You are complaining about image snipers and you can't stand how they use their time. Stop making such stupid assumptions about "image snipers". You have absolutely no idea how "they" use their time besides Danbooru.
That is the actual problem here: You are treating this like a topic that you are putting on a personal level: Attacking others and accusing them of bad tagging or that image sniping invokes bad tagging. At least the latter is horribly wrong. If you can't stand what "others" are doing with "their" time, then let "them" be. You don't have to care for "them".
Off course you can put your focus on something else and where you think it belongs. But that is something up to the uploader: They decide where their effort belongs to and fast uploading also has its benefits. If you can't see them, then you first have to understand it to make a point against this so called shitty behavior.
Speaking of shitty behavior: It is funny that this is coming from you, because you are doing the same thing, too: Uploading with 0 tags sometimes (I really hope you don't forget to remove "tagme" afterwards), but the point is: You are trying to make a point against something that you are already performing. This is backwards and hypocrisy: It seems to me that you are just sad of not getting the uploader's name next to an image, and your first paragraph directly implies this.
Just think about it and in the end, you will probably realize that this is an artificial problem, created by those, who can't get an upload or by those who are sad that their tagging work before went waste. In the end, we are an image storing site and the results are what count. That means: Is this image well tagged by the uploader and is the quality alright. The initial input of tags is pretty uninteresting for the purpose of this site, because it will change a few seconds later.
So...that is why it is also good that you are looking for backlogged stuff, because again: Image storing site. And effort belongs to every place here.

First of all, why all of the salt? What I stated above is a matter of fact. Rather than spending my time waiting for new works to be uploaded uncertainly, it's better to do something else. Also, I never accusing someone to be a sniper, nor saying that being a sniper is a bad thing. What I stated is my honest opinion based from my experiences.

I just don't get how this topic gets bloated so much

Gee, I wonder why. Maybe this topic's title is practically asking for it?

That is the actual problem here: You are treating this like a topic that you are putting on a personal level: Attacking others and accusing them of bad tagging or that image sniping invokes bad tagging.

Speaking of shitty behavior: It is funny that this is coming from you, because you are doing the same thing, too: Uploading with 0 tags sometimes (I really hope you don't forget to remove "tagme" afterwards), but the point is: You are trying to make a point against something that you are already performing. This is backwards and hypocrisy: It seems to me that you are just sad of not getting the uploader's name next to an image, and your first paragraph directly implies this.

Did you just contradict yourself in one post? Also, you're not exactly clean too....in other aspects.

And jokes on you: I've already redeemed myself for last 3 months. Sure, it's not exactly clean (especially on those Ootsuki Wataru posts case) but hey, one step on a time. You can check the backlog (if there is any) and you'll see tag the most lower tag amounts in my "sniper" post basicall consists of "copyright tag, artist tag, character tag, 1girl/1boy solo looking at viewer long/short hair)

Just think about it and in the end, you will probably realize that this is an artificial problem, created by those, who can't get an upload or by those who are sad that their tagging work before went waste. In the end, we are an image storing site and the results are what count. That means: Is this image well tagged by the uploader and is the quality alright. The initial input of tags is pretty uninteresting for the purpose of this site, because it will change a few seconds later.

Then why creating this topic in the first place? You know that every topics related with tagging behaviour will usually ended up in shitstorm.

Sacriven said:

First of all, why all of the salt? What I stated above is a matter of fact. Rather than spending my time waiting for new works to be uploaded uncertainly, it's better to do something else. Also, I never accusing someone to be a sniper, nor saying that being a sniper is a bad thing. What I stated is my honest opinion based from my experiences.

Gee, I wonder why. Maybe this topic's title is practically asking for it?

Did you just contradict yourself in one post? Also, you're not exactly clean too....in other aspects.

And jokes on you: I've already redeemed myself for last 3 months. Sure, it's not exactly clean (especially on those Ootsuki Wataru posts case) but hey, one step on a time. You can check the backlog (if there is any) and you'll see tag the most lower tag amounts in my "sniper" post basicall consists of "copyright tag, artist tag, character tag, 1girl/1boy solo looking at viewer long/short hair)

Then why creating this topic in the first place? You know that every topics related with tagging behaviour will usually ended up in shitstorm.

I did not mean you, but Mikaeri. Thought it was obvious by the context.

I'm just amused by how mad Provence is by all this.

It's quite cute.

On a side note, learn to cut the baloney, and please take other opinions into consideration. It would help.

Maybe you should stop derailing this topic by taking things always on a personal level.
It is pretty clear what my statement is: The result is what count and this is free of any emotion.

Can we chill and get back on track or is this going to be Mikaeri vs Provence in a boxing ring?

Provence said:

Maybe you should stop derailing this topic by taking things always on a personal level.
It is pretty clear what my statement is: The result is what count and this is free of any emotion.

I think you're the one making this personal. I am simply expressing my beliefs in forum #132428 about why this problem you think is 'artificial' should be remedied.

Calm down, take a chill pill, and how about you stop taking everything so personally? As Sacriven said, you literally contradicted yourself in the same paragraph. Kind of reminds me of a certain person. If you have problems about the feedback I issued you, then you know what you should do? Dispute it in another thread and in another place, but don't go attacking other people just because you're so salty.

0tagging isn't inherently a bad thing, you might even save a few uncensored posts artists upload by accident. But what is important is that uploaders remain diligent, regardless of what they get or don't get. Read my post again.

Mikaeri said:

0tagging isn't inherently a bad thing, you might even save a few uncensored posts artists upload by accident. But what is important is that uploaders remain diligent, regardless of what they get or don't get. Read my post again.

Actually, you don't need to 0tag to save an uncensored post, as long as it's in your cache the twitter pbs link will still work (Just pray you had the orig file up and not just the large), though for pixiv you'll want to save the cached file to your hdd probably (I've never really had to deal with it on pixiv so idk).

CodeKyuubi said:

Actually, you don't need to 0tag to save an uncensored post, as long as it's in your cache the twitter pbs link will still work (Just pray you had the orig file up and not just the large), though for pixiv you'll want to save the cached file to your hdd probably (I've never really had to deal with it on pixiv so idk).

Ah, that's exactly what I mean. Sometimes artists post uncensored works on upload but then quickly up a revision once they realize the work they just upped is uncensored. There are other times, too, when they upload absurdres stuff but mean to only publish it at a smaller size. There's a number of md5 mismatches like that.

@Mikaeri, @Provence, this is a final warning for both of you. Keep your infighting to private messages or discord, don't bring it to forum or comments or feedbacks. This also holds true for your grudges against any other users.

And this topic is going nowhere. I consider the issue solved as soon as we implement tag merge. That way, if somebody "snipes" you, tag history will keep track of that.

This goes for Discord too. You two don't like each other? Fine, whatever, but leave the feud out of Discord.

evazion said:

This goes for Discord too. You two don't like each other? Fine, whatever, but leave the feud out of Discord.

I don't hang around in the Discord anymore.

And this topic is going nowhere. I consider the issue solved as soon as we implement tag merge. That way, if somebody "snipes" you, tag history will keep track of that.

It hasn't went anywhere because we've been fixated on whether it is a problem or not to begin with. Only a few other users (CodeKyuubi, Fred1515, PhoenixG, etc) have provided meaningful discussion about how to at least remedy the situation. This last page has been pretty much a saltfest, which I don't care to participate in.

In any case, I don't feel like tag merging will stop anyone from continuing to do what they do. But so be it, let's see where it goes once it is implemented.

I was around for Mr GT and his obnoxious sniping. If you don't know this user, I'll give the short version. He was a fast uploader that uploaded only with tagme, it pissed off a lot of people, and it eventually led to him being demoted after I asked a former Moderator about him (and found out I was definitely not the only user complaining about him).

Before he was punished, I tried sniping the same way Mr GT did. I got nothing out of it, so I stopped minutes after, the same day. I never did it again. I still don't like it and refuse to do it. CodeKyuubi's sentiments on the issue are the same as mine. There's little to no effort involved, and it's only for personal satisfaction that doesn't seem to get you good marks, unless other uninformed users are already handing them Positives.

Yet people still gave him Positives, and still praised him for his volume of uploads. Granted, in Mr GT's case, that was before he made a sockpuppet called Touhou Post Fag. And I assume that another thing that gets people heated about this is seeing users like that still get praised for uploads ("Continues to be a prolific uploader", "Occasionally questionable behavior, but lots of great stuff overall."); meanwhile a user that doesn't resort to sniping doesn't get any praise at all. I don't expect all users to think about how they give Positives (I've seen more than enough that don't), but maybe look closer at how users like this are uploading before showering them with several Positives.

Going forward:
Stop giving users Positive records for fast uploading. Just stop. This is part of the problem. Uploading fast isn't difficult.

If you're going to snipe in tags, don't be surprised if people get on your ass for it. There's also nothing stopping them from giving you Negative records for it. It's not breaking any rules, but it's a dick move.

Wasn't GT posting like, hundreds of posts at a time and then he'd go back and tag some of them? I really hope no modern poster is uploading in the volumes he was.

Pretty much as forum #132525. Post sniping isn't hard since all you do is follow all the popular artists and stay around during one part of the day just to grab all their work with little to no effort on your part.

If you tag quickly and diligently while uploading? Great, no complaints there. It would beg to see more a diversity of uploads if you're only going for popular works or for works from a single artist, but it's nothing to gripe about.

But at least what I've observed is that some uploaders will continue to be selfish to the detriment to the rest of the other users. When you make such gratification as easy as possible to get, it's inevitable that some people are going to be lazy. It's inevitable that tagging will basically be cut down to "what I've only remembered to tag in the 20 seconds I've had to look at this" as people move quickly from post to post, ending their work simply after they've gotten their stuff's worth.

Of course it's not easy to spot, and it's not even easy to provide examples for, but again I think that simply post merging still won't solve the problem at hand... if we're to make such a thing more disdainful it has to be either through a change of the system where you're no longer rewarded for uploading the fastest, or through user moderation.

Stop giving users Positive records for fast uploading. Just stop. This is part of the problem. Uploading fast isn't difficult.

Pretty much this. I could care less about fast uploading. I care more about if a user is a diligent tagger and uploader even if his name doesn't go on something. This is what leads to people feeling like uploading is just 'enough' like what was echoed in topic #14097, and with other users who say their responsibility isn't to tag an upload, against what's said in howto:upload.

Wasn't GT posting like, hundreds of posts at a time and then he'd go back and tag some of them? I really hope no modern poster is uploading in the volumes he was.

I wasn't around when he was active, but it sounds like something legitimately awful. There's the possibility it could happen again with another user. I recall in an earlier post in this thread, Type said leaving a post untagged for roughly 2 hours to get back to is acceptable, but that's still plenty of time. Plus, if someone else does it first, you can just claim the opportunity to tag was stolen from you while you had the intention to do it later anyway.