You're new to Touhou, aren't you. There's always been racism. Also, I wouldn't put this under heart breaking. It's a bit of a downer but nothing heart breaking about it
error504 said: You're new to Touhou, aren't you. There's always been racism. Also, I wouldn't put this under heart breaking. It's a bit of a downer but nothing heart breaking about it
I dunno. I'm looking at all of the parts Nitori has out and waiting to be assembled, and the plans she drew, and all of the love and concern and urge-to-be-helpfulness she was feeling for the humans to devote that much effort to one of their problems...
...And they reject her love for a whole year, until another human comes along to do the job the same way she would. And they reject her a final time by choosing him.
And it's not this one time, but the entire attitude implied by it. That they'll never accept her love, and will always fear and hate her.
Red_Inugami said: I dunno. I'm looking at all of the parts Nitori has out and waiting to be assembled, and the plans she drew, and all of the love and concern and urge-to-be-helpfulness she was feeling for the humans to devote that much effort to one of their problems...
...And they reject her love for a whole year, until another human comes along to do the job the same way she would. And they reject her a final time by choosing him.
And it's not this one time, but the entire attitude implied by it. That they'll never accept her love, and will always fear and hate her.
It is kind of heart-breaking.
I think hes just talking about canon. With the exception of Marisa, Reimu and Sanae, human-youkai relations are far from friendly.
Look at Nitori in panel 3, practically bouncing with excitement as she straightens that bow-tie; out of her chair and leaning over the table, pounding the table and waving her hands in the air as she goes over the plans. Now look at her expression in panel 1.
Now look back to panel 3, then panel 1 again. And again. And again.
If you don't think this is heart-breaking, you haven't looked enough times. (Or you have never really cared about anything in your life, or you are a sociopath incapable of empathy. Take your pick.)
katanaa said: If you consider UFO where Sanae gets high hunting youkai, I think it's only Reimu and Marisa left.
But Sanae tolerates the tengu and the kappa of the mountain (at least enough to have them worship Kanako). So its a step closer to peace than regular humans.
It seems most people seem to have forgotten about the entire "youkai eating humans and being more ridiculously more powerful than them" thing. Spell Card rules and everything.
Not that it excuses what happened in the comic mind you. It's just kinda on a different level of discrimination that happens between blacks and whites in the US for example.
Also Sanae is not a bloodthirsty monster and Marisa just steal things. And the majority of UFO's endings.
MMaestro said: Seeing as youkai EAT humans, yeah I'd say having Sanae, Reimu and Marisa humiliate them with danmaku and then let them go is pretty friendly.
Unless you'd rather play Touhou games with no extra lives, no continues and dying results in a guro screen..
ZUN himself tends to be pretty ambiguous regarding this matter and often contradicts himself in canon works. I'd say it isn't nearly as hot nowadays as it was in the past (and as the drama queen Akyu sometimes makes it out to be). It's pretty much just "HURR I EAT U" on one side and "DURR I EXTERMINAET U" on the other, with everyone sipping tea at Reimu's in the end.
Most written works are either by : Akyuu, who is weak and has VERY limited interaction with youkai. (Human heavy bias) Rinnosuke, who doesn't interact with many humans beyond Marisa and Reimu and even less interaction with youkai. (Neutral but doesn't offer any worthwhile insight) Marisa, who is so powerful shes obviously jaded in human-youkai relations. (Wild card, ran away from human village but youkai find her annoying) Or Reimu who is obviously being controlled by Yukari in developing friendly human-youkai relations with the danmaku rules. (Youkai heavy bias since she obviously hasn't "exterminated" her past opponents like Remilia)
MMaestro said: ...since she obviously hasn't "exterminated" her past opponents like Remilia.
I actually don't even remember anyone explicitly stating whether "youkai extermination" is permanent (death) or not. Given the fact all the UFO youkai are just fine in the end after Sanae spent a whole day getting off on them, I'd say the latter.
MMaestro said: Only if you ignore the "Bad Endings"...
Which involve the player character getting back to change clothes and get some sleep, if you don't count some of the PC98 endings (crucifixion, apocalypse, dissolution in acid etc. - good times, good times).
Nevermind, every canon discussion always ends up with people overthinking it way too much, and it's not just Touhou. In fact, I doubt ZUN has a consistent, working concept of Gensokyo, or takes every game's plot dead seriously, something every arguing side presumes. Not like fanon artists care, anyway.
extermination can only be done by the mikos or people working for the gods. Youkai will bring themselves back to life unless you use divine powers, or are a celestial, or are living through the favor of gods, like Kasen.
Reimu is a huge tsundere for youkai, though. She hasn't sealed or exterminated any youkai that I know of. In fact, hadn't she told so to Nue?
1. You missed my point. 2. The EoSD Bad Ending has the heroine basically being told "you sux for using a continue or playing on Easy, therefore I win by default, GTFO cause I'm keeping the mist up." 3. Again, you missed my point. Zun IS consistent if you think about it from the character's perspective.
Gensoukyou is a land of things that: A. are only a dream in the outside world (harnessing controlled nuclear fusion, giant robots, etc.) B. no longer exist in the outside world (crested ibises, magic, gods, youkai, etc.) C. have been stuck in Gensoukyou since its founding D. have slipped across the border from the outside world
Consider that if B is the case here, that means that race bigotry no longer exists outside Gensoukyou.
There's some positive interaction between humans and youkai that hasn't been mentioned yet. Tewi will sometimes grant good luck to humans, and some people will actually go into the bamboo forest in hopes of finding her. Keine is a beloved resident of a human village despite being a youkai. Hina chases lost travelers away from Youkai mountain and absorbs their bad luck as an added bonus.
As scant as official information is things like this are largely open to interpretation/speculation by fans, and since neither side necessarily conflicts with canon we can have nice fan works that go in both directions.
Racism is a thing that make us humans feel stupid. Because why do white and black and other color persons has to be soo different when they don’t make a difference? The same with Kappas or other Youkai! Who cares what species is or are when we should care about how good at working they do, soo they can help us to make a better place! (Just look at Zootopia soo you can understand it a bit more! Or Beastars or Brand New Animal!)
I asked the master for a reason. Why was my machine no good? All that I asked in compensation was the cost of the materials, so I didn't think I would lose to another engineer.If he had used my device a year ago...I think I know even more about fish than I do about humans, so I was confident that I could solve this problem. But no matter how many times I spoke to the master, he refused to give me consent.Today, now that a year has passed, a human engineer came and proposed a device that was virtually the same as mine. He sold the master on it, and they began to use it immediately.
At how, even given how the kappa love humans...In the meantime, the koi continued to die, and the master bought new ones to replace them and released them in the lake. And so the cycle repeated..."I just couldn't trust something made by a youkai," he said.Because I spread misfortune, I stay on the mountain, and she tells me stories about the village. I really enjoy hearing her stories.And at how, even so, that girl continues to love humans.There was this pond in the garden of a big mansion......this could have ended with that many koi still alive.But sometimes, I feel sad.So he told me the reason. Hey, Hina. Do you know what it was?He had decided on his response from the beginning....humans do not love kappa.Nitori Kawashiro is my friend, so I may be biased, but I believe she is an outstanding engineer.She loves humans, and she occasionally sneaks out to the human village.Yeah... the first time was about a year ago....The koi that were being kept in the pond kept getting sick. When I heard about it, I proposed a device to the master of the mansion that would control the water quality.