Queen Dizzy implication

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Hoshino Yumemi

Was this tag really needed? The tag wiki states that Dizzy made 2 appearances in GGST's story, but from what I remember, they were just her appearing on-screen with no speaking roles.

Why is Dizzy the only one with an alt tag, what about everyone else that appeared in the credits scene? Testament, Elphelt, Sin, Slayer, Baiken, Johnny, and Venom all appeared in the story with their XRD appearance in the credits scene (for reference, one of 2 scenes Dizzy appeared in is in fact the credits of the base game). One can say Slayer, Baiken, and Johnny don't look that different. But what about the others? Where is the "Rockstar Elphelt" tag? How about "Baker Venom"?

This is just a new design for Dizzy. Can't we just tag the images with Guilty Gear Strive and call it a day?

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user 1141649

morriganaensland said:

Was this tag really needed? The tag wiki states that Dizzy made 2 appearances in GGST's story, but from what I remember, they were just her appearing on-screen with no speaking roles.

Why is Dizzy the only one with an alt tag, what about everyone else that appeared in the credits scene? Testament, Elphelt, Sin, Slayer, Baiken, Johnny, and Venom all appeared in the story with their XRD appearance in the credits scene (for reference, one of 2 scenes Dizzy appeared in is in fact the credits of the base game). One can say Slayer, Baiken, and Johnny don't look that different. But what about the others? Where is the "Rockstar Elphelt" tag? How about "Baker Venom"?

This is just a new design for Dizzy. Can't we just tag the images with Guilty Gear Strive and call it a day?

The reason for a separate tag is because the marketing/game itself is explicitly calling her “Queen Dizzy” instead of “Dizzy” both in the teaser, official website, and even in an interview making a significant distinction. Obviously she is the same Dizzy, but there is a clear intent here by the developers to emphasize the difference. And unfortunately due to Dizzy’s design being only slightly altered in Strive’s stories(datamine showed it was a tweaked XRD design) a notable portion of the Guilty Gear Strive tags already feature her XRD design from the credits so using the Strive tag as a sole means to differentiate her does not really work well. We’re talking about 3 years worth of time where Dizzy did not have a new design for Strive. So Dizzy’s XRD design is actually in a notable portion of Strive focus art where she is alongside Ky, Sin, Sol and Jack-O, the Valentines, etc. Dizzy has probably the strongest connection to most of the characters with the most populated tags in the game. I also saw that there is still some artists that expressed that they prefer her XRD design so I won’t be surprised if people continue to draw her credits design in Strive focused art. Even with her new design being available to draw. I mean hell it’s possible her classic design will even continue to show up on official material for Strive as a sort of “casual” design. Because even new official Guilty Gear Strive merch is using her classic hairstyle still: https://www.0101.co.jp/077/event/detail.html?article_seq=123565&article_type=sto

Likewise who knows if the anime in 2025 will depict the Queen Dizzy design or XRD one either.

While I can somewhat understand your point with those characters the Dizzy situation is a bit different from all those other characters as she is distinctly being called “Queen Dizzy” as the playable version of the character. While for example, Elphelt isn’t called “Rockstar Elphelt” by the trailers, official website or by the development team now is she?

https://www.guiltygear.com/ggst/en/buynow/

^^ Dizzy is even listed as “Queen Dizzy” in the season pass 4 details instead of Dizzy(you have to click Season Pass 4 for the pass details to show up). No other returning character has gotten this treatment. Evidently the example you used with Venom it’s shown here he is still just “Venom”.

Besides it’s not very different than having an Order-Sol tag even though for all intents and purposes he’s just Sol in a different outfit/at a different point in his life. The Queen Dizzy tag can serve a similar purpose for Dizzy making it easier to search for each version of the character as well as making it easier to tag for the character in general.

Updated by user 1141649

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user 1141649

LQ said:

BUR #29194 has been rejected.

create alias queen_dizzy -> dizzy_(guilty_gear)

This should deal with any existing and future posts, especially if they end up naming the in-game character "Queen Dizzy". 100% of the posts are already tagged Strive.

What is the point of making the alias? The reason for the tag in the first place is due to the distinction made in official material for Strive, the already populated Strive uploads with Dizzy’s old design, the new posts with her new design, and to make tagging/searching for each version of Dizzy easier when it comes to Strive fanart. If if we’re gonna ignore the distinction altogether then fundamentally an alias would serve no purpose at all and neither would the tag.

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LQ

It's a rejection of the implication while handling the existing populated tag. It acts as more of a rename + deprecation than a useful alias, moving existing posts and, if they rename the character in-game, still useful for tagging (even though "dizzy" is obvious, at least to veterans) and preventing the tag from being recreated.

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Hoshino Yumemi

zeogen said:
Besides it’s not very different than having an Order-Sol tag even though for all intents and purposes he’s just Sol in a different outfit/at a different point in his life. The Queen Dizzy tag can serve a similar purpose for Dizzy making it easier to search for each version of the character as well as making it easier to tag for the character in general.

I coincide to the rest of your argument, But Order-Sol is not the same situation. Order-Sol is a whole different character on the roster, Arcsys made that distinction themselves. As far as we know, Dizzy in Strive is a new design and a very likely new name. I don't think it needs a whole new tag. If there was a Dizzy and Queen Dizzy on the roster, then I would be singing a different tune.

I think a tag alias works for now.

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user 1141649

morriganaensland said:

I coincide to the rest of your argument, But Order-Sol is not the same situation. Order-Sol is a whole different character on the roster, Arcsys made that distinction themselves. As far as we know, Dizzy in Strive is a new design and a very likely new name. I don't think it needs a whole new tag. If there was a Dizzy and Queen Dizzy on the roster, then I would be singing a different tune.

I think a tag alias works for now.

I said similar not the same. I meant in that they are both cases of being the same character, but after a significant moment/event in their life. Frankly I think complaints can still be used for Order-Sol, but it would just be arguing semantics at that point. Because Order-Sol is still just Sol and If we ignore gameplay/roster significance from a purely Danbooru pov people could easily argue that Order-Sol doesn’t need a separate tag since it’s just Sol in a different outfit. But honestly there is so many characters on danbooru that have alternate tags for far less justified reasons than either Order Sol or Queen Dizzy. Especially gacha-related characters. And honestly I don’t mind it as it makes searching for specific versions of a character so much easier as well tagging for them. Anyway I’ve explained my arguments enough I’ll leave it to whatever the majority ends up voting.

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WRS

I don't know too much about the Guilty Gear franchise but we do have some precedent for when there's a significant alteration or alternate point in someone's life for being a character tag; just not sure if that precedent is reserved for gacha games or if it's been seen elsewhere since I primarily upload gacha game art. If promotional materials or other media present them as different characters, then should they not be different characters in searchability's best interest?

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Hoshino Yumemi

Unapproved_in_Three_Days said:

I don't know too much about the Guilty Gear franchise but we do have some precedent for when there's a significant alteration or alternate point in someone's life for being a character tag; just not sure if that precedent is reserved for gacha games or if it's been seen elsewhere since I primarily upload gacha game art. If promotional materials or other media present them as different characters, then should they not be different characters in searchability's best interest?

I personally have only seen it for gacha, but with this topic and topic #28159, there seems to be some kind of push for these tags for fighting games too? The other topic mentioned it being a thing for Overwatch too.

The Cammy costume tags in the other topic is only for alternative costumes with the exception of her censored Fortnite outfit and her Alpha outfit (Killer Bee Cammy), which are her main looks for those games. I don't know if there's a plan for giving her other main outfits character tags, but Dizzy's new design would fall under a main outfit, so it wouldn't get a character tag if we look to the other topic as reference.

Regardless, this is a mostly foreign concept for fighting games on Danbooru.

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Damian0358

morriganaensland said:

I personally have only seen it for gacha, but with this topic and topic #28159, there seems to be some kind of push for these tags for fighting games too? The other topic mentioned it being a thing for Overwatch too.

In general, ever since we received costume tags for Mario games, affirmed by implications even when the usual "copytag chartag" combo would suffice (see Strikers Peach's existence, and after that, Rouge the Bat (SA2B)) people have started pushing harder and harder for costume tags... basically everywhere, despite the traditional attitude to keep it confined to gacha games and VTubers. It's to the point where even one of the admins complained about this in forum #292585. What does and doesn't count for costume tags is increasingly ambiguous and people are pushing boundaries to see where things end up (such as an OC in Sakurada Shiro (hy plus) even being permitted to have costume tags).

Updated by Damian0358

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Confetto

Damian0358 said:

In general, ever since we received costume tags for Mario games, affirmed by implications even when the usual "copytag chartag" combo would suffice (see Strikers Peach's existence, and after that, Rouge the Bat (SA2B)) people have started pushing harder and harder for costume tags... basically everywhere, despite the traditional attitude to keep it confined to gacha games and VTubers. It's to the point where even one of the admins complained about this in forum #292585. What does and doesn't count for costume tags is increasingly ambiguous and people are pushing boundaries to see where things end up (such as an OC in Sakurada Shiro (hy plus) even being permitted to have costume tags).

I feel like this happening was inevitable because "only gachas and vtubers" is a highly arbitrary line to draw. Overwatch and League of Legends for example aren't gacha games, but they clearly benefit from having costume tags.

As for the copytag specific ones, I feel like there is something to be said about the frustration with Gold being unavailable for so long, making searching without these chartags harder for a lot of users since just searching that already takes up both their tags for the search. And there are also things like, Rouge the Bat (Riders) is a gacha costume, available in Sonic Speed Simulator, for example.

Not to mention that a copytag + chartag search won't just return the costume for that character, but that character with anything else related to that copyright.

I do absolutely think a line should be drawn at things like OCs, though, as well as unnamed one use costumes from anime episodes or whatever. OCs have no place having multiple chartags, they're not established characters from media.

Also forum #277335 (IRT Overwatch)

Updated by Confetto

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Damian0358

Trouble_Windows said:

I feel like this happening was inevitable because "only gachas and vtubers" is a highly arbitrary line to draw. Overwatch and League of Legends for example aren't gacha games, but they clearly benefit from having costume tags.

Also forum #277335 (IRT Overwatch)

I will admit I generalized a bit too hard here and lumped those two under the gachas strictly because, just like nearly every gacha, you purchased the skins... which when put that way does provide an avenue for folks to push further limits. After all, Street Fighter V and 6 both have DLC costumes.

And forum #277335 doesn't apply when it comes to some of the costume tags being made because they don't have names. Hell, you look at one of the examples I brought up earlier, Strikers Peach, it's literally tagging all of Peach's Strikers-specific designs under one tag. You'd still be doing the "copytag chartag" search with this tag, just instead of princess_peach super_mario_strikers it's strikers_peach super_mario_strikers, and that feels redundant.

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Confetto

Damian0358 said:

I will admit I generalized a bit too hard here and lumped those two under the gachas strictly because, just like nearly every gacha, you purchased the skins... which when put that way does provide an avenue for folks to push further limits. After all, Street Fighter V and 6 both have DLC costumes.

And forum #277335 doesn't apply when it comes to some of the costume tags being made because they don't have names. Hell, you look at one of the examples I brought up earlier, Strikers Peach, it's literally tagging all of Peach's Strikers-specific designs under one tag. You'd still be doing the "copytag chartag" search with this tag, just instead of princess_peach super_mario_strikers it's strikers_peach super_mario_strikers, and that feels redundant.

I don't really have an argument against your point on Strikers Peach, it's not a great tag and I'm not fond of it. I also only really linked that post for reference, not really as a counterpoint.

My statement was more of my general thoughts rather than my thoughts on any specific tag, I dunno if I expressed that properly though.

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Damian0358

Trouble_Windows said:

My statement was more of my general thoughts rather than my thoughts on any specific tag, I dunno if I expressed that properly though.

No worries, you expressed it properly. I was just extending the discussion.

Though I will point out that for some of the stuff people are making costume tags for, the chartag copytag search returns at bare minimum, only a few pages. Invoking Peach once more, there was the recent creation of Princess Peach (Summer Sports), Princess Peach (Winter Sports), and Princess Peach (Gymnastics), for at least three designs associated with her in the Mario & Sonic series. Look at how many posts those individual tags have, and then search princess_peach mario_&_sonic_(series) and tell me whether or not those three tags are at all necessary when you can find the results simply like so. They technically have names, at least the Gymnastics one, but they just feel immensely redundant, and a lot of costume tags being pushed for have this same vibe, in my eyes.

This is why I remarked that people are pushing the boundaries for this stuff.

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LQ

I changed my mind. Looking at things like the store page, seems pretty likely it'll explicitly be called Queen Dizzy. Might as well fix it now; can always change it if it's different when she releases in October.

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