[discussion] nuking remodel_(kantai_collection) into separate character tags

The bulk update request #8676 (forum #204508) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #8809 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

mass update yuubari_(kancolle) remodel_(kancolle) solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> yuubari_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo yuubari_(kancolle)
create implication yuubari_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> yuubari_(kancolle)

Guess that we missed this one.

ArcieA said:

BUR #8676 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

mass update ryuuhou_(kancolle) taigei_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo -cosplay -> char:ryuuhou_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo ryuuhou_(kancolle) taigei_(kancolle)
mass update conte_di_cavour_(kancolle) conte_di_cavour_nuovo_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo -cosplay -> char:conte_di_cavour_nuovo_(kancolle) solo conte_di_cavour_(kancolle)
create implication conte_di_cavour_nuovo_(kancolle) -> conte_di_cavour_(kancolle)
create implication ryuuhou_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> ryuuhou_(kancolle)
create implication amagiri_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> amagiri_(kancolle)

Forgot that Ryuuhou and Conte di Cavour also have second remodels too so going to leave this here as an addition. I'm guessing the Taiyou update failed to parse because they didn't have the Kasuga Maru chartag added on left so I added Taigei with Ryuuhou for good measure.
Also adding Amagiri's kai ni implication to the main Amagiri chartag in light of yesterday's reveal of Amagiri kai ni.

I've already manually gardened the Ryuuhou Kai Ni tag so this is merely a formality. Same goes for Conte even though someone else manually gardened it.
Also to the one whose BUR is still pending, please remove Sazanami from the update and implication. She doesn't have a kai ni yet and the one you may be referring to (post #2470743) is not a kai ni, it's an update to her kai CG.

Probably this was answered before but I have to ask, we also shouldn't create a character tag for Ryuuhou "Kai Ni E" remodel?

So far that one seems very different from her Kai Ni version unlike most Kai forms, hense why we dont create a separated tag for those(tho are quite some Kai forms that are visually different from the base ones).

Also It seems third remodels and above aren't taken into consideration. I can see why reversible remodels can't count since are just variations of the Kai Ni ones, that being said if the intention of this mass taging campaign is to give people a more easy way to search for the specific version of the each character they want, then why not creating a tag for those too?

I can imagine people wanting to search for Ryuuhou Kai Ni E instead of her Kai Ni version, but as for now it requires the use of more tags in order to search for that particular version, just like before when people was using the remodel tag to search for remodeled versions + the name of the shipgirl in question, there is even what it seems to me an error by tagging as Ryuuhou Kai Ni what is actually her Kai form.

Honestly I just want a clarification about why we are putting everything inside the Kai Ni label if that is going to end in the same way as the remodel one, at least the (character)_Kai Ni tag is more specific but the same problem recides when it comes to search for specific remodels such as the E variants for example.

The bulk update request #8809 (forum #205152) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

evvvk said:

BUR #8585 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Show

create implication musashi_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> musashi_(kancolle)
create implication zuikaku_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> zuikaku_(kancolle)
create implication suzuya_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> suzuya_(kancolle)
create implication kumano_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> kumano_(kancolle)
create implication ooi_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> ooi_(kancolle)
create implication kitakami_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> kitakami_(kancolle)
create implication zuihou_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> zuihou_(kancolle)
create implication murasame_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> murasame_(kancolle)
create implication makigumo_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> makigumo_(kancolle)
create implication takanami_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> takanami_(kancolle)
create implication shiratsuyu_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> shiratsuyu_(kancolle)
create implication shikinami_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> shikinami_(kancolle)
create implication asashio_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> asashio_(kancolle)
create implication chitose_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> chitose_(kancolle)

First time using this feature so I hope that this is formatted properly. Anyway, if we are really doing this there probably should be tags for Musashi K2, Zuikaku K2, Suzuya K2, Ooi K2, Kitakami K2, Zuihou K2, Murasame K2, Makigumo K2, Takanami K2, Shiratsuyu K2, Shikinami K2, Asashio K2, Chitose K2, and Chiyoda K2.

I'm not sure about approving this because of the false positives. I'd prefer if these tags were manually created and only the implications were handled via BUR, because otherwise we risk moving the wrong posts and then nobody moving them afterwards.

Just as a reminder, for gold+ users there's a tag script menu on the sidebar for quick tagging from the thumbnails. If you set thumbnail size to gigantic it's pretty trivial to populate tags like these manually from the searches linked in the BUR.

As for the additional costumes like Kai Ni E, I have no issue if you want to create tags for those too. All of the other games like Azur Lane already have a tag for each costume.

nonamethanks said:

I'm not sure about approving this because of the false positives. I'd prefer if these tags were manually created and only the implications were handled via BUR, because otherwise we risk moving the wrong posts and then nobody moving them afterwards.

That's basically what I have been doing while this BUR is in limbo. The only ones I haven't touched are Chitose and Chiyoda, but otherwise I've been manually gardening the kai ni tags for the rest, including the official arts.
The way I see it, it's easy to handle Ooi and KTKM's second remodels because:
1. They are distinct in form (khaki/light green instead of full-on green)
2. Most of the illustrations depict them together so it's easier to garden the kai ni tags for both characters, in much the same way Shigure and Yuudachi are.

For Musashi, I've been applying the kai ni tag to only her kai ni while removing the remodel tags for her kai form because the objective of this move is to give all kai ni their chartags while retiring the remodel tag. Though if need be, we can also make a Musashi Kai chartag if we're going by additional costumes that also need chartags (like Ryuuhou K2E, Chitose and Chiyoda seaplane tender remodel, etc.), but I'd rather hold off on that until we have migrated all kai ni tags first.

I've removed the mass updates and approved the implications only, for the reason above. Here's the removed lines:

mass update musashi_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection)  solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:musashi_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo 
mass update zuikaku_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection)  solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:zuikaku_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo
mass update suzuya_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection)  solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:suzuya_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo 
mass update ooi_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection)  solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:ooi_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo
mass update kitakami_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:kitakami_kai_Ni_(kancolle) solo 
mass update zuihou_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:zuihou_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo
mass update murasame_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection)  solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:murasame_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo
mass update makigumo_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:makigumo_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo
mass update takanami_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:takanami_kai_ni_(kancolle) solo
mass update shiratsuyu_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:shiratsuyu_kai_ni_(kancolle)
mass update shikinami_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection)  solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:shikinami_kai_ni_(kancolle)
mass update asashio_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection)  solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:asashio_kai_ni_(kancolle)
mass update chitose_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:chitose_kai_ni_(kancolle)
mass update chiyoda_(kancolle) remodel_(kantai_collection) solo chartags:1 -cosplay -> char:chiyoda_kai_ni_(kancolle)

The bulk update request #8585 (forum #203977) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #8869 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication chiyoda_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> chiyoda_(kancolle)

Thought that I had included this in one of my previous BURs but apparently that wasn't the case.

The bulk update request #8869 (forum #205485) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Shouldn't same be done with Azur lane characters? Their retrofits are usually pretty distinct looking.

Azur lane already uses costume tags so yes, that tag should also be sorted out.

The main question to ask is how to format the Azur Lane retrofit tags. With KanColle, it is a simple matter of just adding kai, kai ni, etc. to the character name. How does Azur Lane handle the naming convention for this sort of stuff?

The reason to ask is to see how we may or may not standardize the formatting of these post-overarching-remodeling-tags (though it just might be one of those things we can't necessarily standardize). We've got the current KanColle format (character_name_remodel_stage_(modifier)), but we've also got the format adopted for Touken Ranbe's Kiwame forms (character_name_(remodel)_(modifier)). It's one of the reasons (aside from just checking tagging thoroughness) why we haven't begun anything for GFL's MOD3 tags, since either/or would make sense for it (Pixiv does it KanColle-style, but the other way fits more in line with costume tag formatting).

Damian0358 said:

The main question to ask is how to format the Azur Lane retrofit tags. With KanColle, it is a simple matter of just adding kai, kai ni, etc. to the character name. How does Azur Lane handle the naming convention for this sort of stuff?

Actually for Azur Lane, we already have a precedent with the META forms (character_name_(meta)_(modifier)), but it may look awkward if we just substituted meta for retrofit. Aside from that, it's looking as the primary option we have for AL retrofits.

I'll admit I wasn't thinking too hard when I created the touken ranbu kiwame tags, I wasn't familiar enough with the word to know if it made sense to just stick it on the end like kai ni which is why it ended up in parenthesis.

Adding my two cents to this...

BUR #8948 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication sazanami_kai_(kancolle) -> sazanami_(kancolle)

Technically a remodel. While not yet a second remodel like the others, the get-up is somewhat different than the default. Will populate the tag when I have the time later.

Personally I would wait until the remodel tag has successfully eliminated before having discussion about Kais with different clothes from base form as that trait isn't exactly limited to Sazanami alone. At the moment at least following ships have Kai forms with different outfits from their base forms: Oboro, Akebono, Sazanami, Murasame, Isokaze, Kitakami, Ooi, Ooyodo, Honolulu, Helena, Gotland, Perth, Prinz Eugen, Northampton, Houston, Yamato, Musashi, Bismarck, Washington, South Dakota, Nelson, Ryuuhou, Zuihou, Zuikaku, Unryuu, Amagi, Katsuragi, Taihou, Graf Zeppelin, Saratoga, Intrepid, I-203, Kamoi, Akitsushima, Jingei, Chougei, Souya, Akitsu Maru, and Akashi.

The bulk update request #8948 (forum #205947) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #8966 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

So we are doing Kais then too? All of the ships mentioned in BUR should have visual changes that are comparable to that between Sazanami and Sazanami Kai (have ignored couple ones where changes are extremely minor such as their neckwear's color changing lightly). Might do another one someday for K2s with multiple variants but before doing that I wanna ask about how their implications should work. For example, should Akagi Kai Ni E implicate Akagi Kai Ni or plain old Akagi?

Also Bismark got both kai and zwei tags as her clothes are visually different from each other and her base form's.

You shouldn't be using char: in the left side of a BUR. Create the tags first before requesting an implication.