[discussion] nuking remodel_(kantai_collection) into separate character tags

user_491970 said:

Question, if you had say shipgirlname_kai_ni would it also autotag them as shipgirlname or would it be the exclusive shipgirlname_kai_ni tag?

If we implicate the kai ni tags, and whatever other alt skin tags we make, to the base character tag then yes, they'll autotag the base tag, but they won't do that without making the implications, like any other tags (besides the cosplay tags)

Mexiguy said:

With Kancolle the problem isn't as much the remodels as it's the untagged seasonal/alternate costumes

The problem with this particular proposal is that unlike AL and FGO, KC's seasonals don't receive names. It's not a feasible (or even realistic) option to just assign separate char tags for the seasonal costumes from scratch, this is a different thing from giving descriptive names to unnamed original charas from works like Sky's 2080TI series.

Otherwise separate remodel char tags can work. It provides homogeneity with the other franchises that have separated tags for charas and their alternate guises.

How about Kai remodels which often have very miniscule differences? Or those which only change equipment?
Or characters with multiple remodels like Bismarck?
Would *_kai/kai_ni_(kancolle) implicate base character tag? How about if you want to search pics for only the unremodeled character? Would one remodel tag for a character cover all the remodels? Blanket tag for all seasonals?

This seems like such a can of worms that i wouldn't touch it.

Against.

nonamethanks said:

It makes no sense that someone can't just search for shigure kai ni (kantai collection) or yuudachi kai ni (kantai collection).

That's honestly a bad example, the overwhelming majority of those two specific characters are their remodels. It's much harder to find their base models.

Gollgagh said:

Against.

That's honestly a bad example, the overwhelming majority of those two specific characters are their remodels. It's much harder to find their base models.

ironically for shigure and yuudachi it needs the tag but just so people can slap a minus infront of them while still searching their names, it's basically impossible for a non-builder with their limited tags to find art of the two in their base model since the remodel tag is often skipped or it's used for another character in the pic.

user_491970 said:

ironically for shigure and yuudachi it needs the tag but just so people can slap a minus infront of them while still searching their names, it's basically impossible for a non-builder with their limited tags to find art of the two in their base model since the remodel tag is often skipped or it's used for another character in the pic.

It's not just Shigure and Yuudachi that would benefit from segregated kai ni tags. The Sendai-class, Myoukou-class, Tone-class, Mutsuki-class, Saratoga, Maya/Choukai, Abukuma all have vast amounts of works that portray them in remodeled forms rather than base form (okay maybe Fubuki, Kuma-class, and Tenryuu-class too) and the aforementioned have more weight in deciding the outcome of this discussion as opposed to lesser-attention remodels like the Kagerou-, Yuugumo-, and Hatsuharu-classes.

We'd basically be shaving off typing time and hassle for ordinary users of DB by allowing them to search the remodel arts directly for the appropriate character.
And like I said previously, it's fair treatment for KC remodels to receive separate tags when Fate is full of same personae with different char tags.

BUR #4910 has been rejected.

Part 1.

This list was compiled with The KanColle wiki.
A double check is appreciated on the names, I went through it multiple times but there's always the chance of human error for kai vs kai ni terminology.

The majority of these have several pages of results, some hundreds (Yuudachi has close to 3k posts, Shigure more than that!), save for the following:
(Note that since this BUR only considers solo posts, there are A LOT of results not included, so these numbers are not representative of the actual posts for each remodel)

These are characters with form difference that is not minor rigging or writing, or that I didn't know what to do with, and so will have to be moved manually to new tags:

These are the ones I skipped because there was no remodel art of them under the BUR query. As with the low count tags above, there's likely remodels of them on site but mixed with other characters. This list only applies to "solo -cosplay chartag:1" queries.

For ise (kancolle), hyuuga (kancolle), yamashiro (kancolle) and fusou (kancolle), their kai form is different from the base one in terms of rigging, but I couldn't find any example of the kai form in the BUR queries, so I added them to the BUR.

For akagi (kancolle), kaga (kancolle) and shoukaku (kancolle), they all have multiple kai ni variants, but I added them to the BUR under a single tag because they can be separated at a second moment in any case, if we decide to.

After/if this BUR is approved I'll help with the moving of the remaining posts. I think the BUR should knock out about half of the posts under remodel (kantai collection).

BUR #4911 has been rejected.

Part 2

I can't submit the implications due to a bug with Danbooru (I've opened pull #4759 to fix this), so they'll have to be submitted afterwards.

Thanks to NNT for his service and sacrifice

There's also the original remodel (kantai_collection) tag, which sometimes gets paired with the [remodel (kantai collection)]] tag.

skylightcrystal said:

Ro-500 is a remodel. She doesn't have a remodel version. Similar to Verniy, i-504 etc.

Those lines are there to remove the remodel_(kantai_collection) tag from their solo posts, since I found some.

Yes, sorry I noticed after posting that.

BUR #4912 has been rejected.

I ended up creating the tags manually so they can be implicated in one go without waiting months.

BUR #4913 has been rejected.

create implication zara_kai_ni_(kancolle) -> zara_(kancolle)

And last one, since it was 101 implications and so one too many for a single BUR.

I just read the wiki for original remodel:

So-called "third remodels" also count as original remodels; Bismarck has an official "Drei" form, Kongou has an official third "what if" remodel, and no other shipgirl has a form beyond a second remodel, barring seasonal CGs, although Yukikaze's nominal second remodel can be considered an actual third remodel due to the existence of her Tan Yang form. Hypothetical costumes and gear that come with a yet-to-be-implemented eventual name change or form (such as Tan Yang's, pre-official implementation) can also be considered original remodels.

What is this mess?

Luckily the tag isn't used in that way. But I take it that original_remodel_(kantai_collection) remodel_(kantai_collection) should be nuked before this implication goes ahead, aside from the tiny handful of images like post #3433369 which actually feature both.

skylightcrystal said:

I just read the wiki for original remodel:

What is this mess?

Luckily the tag isn't used in that way. But I take it that original_remodel_(kantai_collection) remodel_(kantai_collection) should be nuked before this implication goes ahead, aside from the tiny handful of images like post #3433369 which actually feature both.

I removed the solo posts from that search, so those should not interfere anymore.

Removed the remodel tag from 4 base Ryuuhou (who is a remodel of Taigei) posts, and the solo tag from a dual persona Ro/U post. I think those are the only cases where the lack of "chartags" from the search could cause problems. So it looks good to go to me.

Goodness only knows how the rest of the tag is going to be dealt with, though.

The proposed kai ni/alterform tags look okay, save for Tan Yang.
It should be Dan Yang since KC uses Pinyin romanization instead of the Wade-Giles romanization used so often for Yukikaze's Chinese name. We can alias Tan- to Dan- to maintain DB's preference to official character names.

ArcieA said:

The proposed kai ni/alterform tags look okay, save for Tan Yang.
It should be Dan Yang since KC uses Pinyin romanization instead of the Wade-Giles romanization used so often for Yukikaze's Chinese name. We can alias Tan- to Dan- to maintain DB's preference to official character names.

You should open a new topic for this, since tan_yang_(kancolle) is an already existing tag. Note that this BUR does not create new tags with that name, so even if an alias is made and approved for that tag before this BUR is processed, it won't affect these updates.