Danbooru

DQ3's "Roto" is a badly named chartag that causes issues

Posted under General

Ran into this issue in the topic #18883 discussion.

As far as I can tell, Roto is the title of the character, not their actual name. The character only gets called Roto at the end of the game, and in posthumous references to the character in games set later in the Dragon Quest chronology.

The title "Roto" itself is also confusing, with it having an alternate transliteration "Loto", being localized into "Eldrick", and then has an alternate name given as "Arusu" or "Irin" or "Arel" in various guidebooks and mangas... that some wikis mention are wrong (despite being canon sources) because they contradict with other canon sources saying their descendant are the ones with those names instead. Or something, I got a headache by then when reading.

Anyway, IIRC promotional materials just call the character by their 'generic' jobtitle, "Hero". So Hero_(dq3) would be the best possible name as it is the least ambiguous and we don't need to wrestle around with all those alternate names that the official sources can't even seem to get right themselves.

A further issue is the Heroine_(dq3) tag. This tag appears to describe an alternate design of the female hero, with a differently-shaped circlet and a shirt with sleeves instead of the sleeveless tunic. (Oh and long black hair.) But I can't find where on earth this design came from, other than Pixiv's ゆーしゃちゃん (Yuusha-chan) tag, which seems to be an OC design that got popular with other artists to be drawn. But this tag causes problems with people expecting Hero_(dq3) for "Roto" and wind up accidentally tagging a female "Roto" (in canonical outfit with sleeveless tunic) as Heroine_(dq3) if they don't check how the latter tag is used. This is made worse by both heroine_(dq3) (here) and ゆーしゃちゃん (Pixiv's) not having any wikis whatsoever.

I made this exact same mistake earlier for post #4617411. Forgot about Roto, tried to tag Hero_(dq3)_(cosplay), couldn't find Hero_(dq3) and mistakenly picked heroine_(dq3) from autocomplete. Only found out about this later and then wasted a lot of time trying to figure out what exactly the heroine_(dq3) tag is for... and even now I'm still not 100% sure other than "it's probably an OC design".

TL;DR:
  • Roto is a confusing unintuitive name that requires at least a Hero_(dq3) utility alias, to allow better visibility of the tag and to make it more intuitive for people expecting a similar chartag name as other Dragon Quest heroes.
  • Heroine_(dq3) is also a problematic tag that causes further issues, as it describes a character design (with sleeved shirt and long hair and different circlet) that differs from the canonical DQ3 Hero design (the female one too). It does not appear to be canon and can cause potential mistags when a "female hero" wearing the canonical outfit gets mistagged as Heroine_(dq3).
    • Heroine_(dq3) should probably be renamed to something like Yuusha-chan_(dq3)_(original) if it is indeed a fan-only original design, to avoid confusion. Ugly double qualifiers, but not much choice. Though if the original fan artist for the OC can be found, we can instead use a single qualifier with just the fan artist's name.

Edit: Wait, nevermind, we have a Hero-chan_(hanauna) tag. This also identifies the artist. In that case, I suppose we should move all relevant examples from Heroine_(dq3) into Hero-chan_(hanauna) and then nuke Heroine_(dq3) completely.

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evazion said:

I'd say alias Roto to Hero (DQ3), move existing posts under Heroine (DQ3) to Hero-chan (Hanauna), and use Heroine (DQ3) for the generic female hero. AFAIK having separate Hero/Heroine tags is what we do for other Dragon Quest games, and splitting Roto into male and female tags was suggested in the past in topic #12106 and topic #3186.

"Roto" does has the issue of having identical garments. DQ4 and DQ9 hero/heroines have different clothes and hair, while DQ3 Hero/Heroine have the same clothes and hairstyle with the female one differing only in being shorter and having breasts. This can make it somewhat hard to decide which tag to use if the Hero/Heroine is drawn with an androgynous appearance, and also splits up the corresponding cosplay tag into two despite it being the same garment.

Though I wouldn't be opposed to splitting it if people think it will make it easier to look for the male Hero. But we need to hash out some 'policy' on the cosplay tag. Always tag hero_(dq3)_(cosplay) regardless of the wearer's gender, maybe?

I agree 100% on the other points and will move out the Hero-chan (Hanauna) examples immediately.

Edit: Moved. Clarified the wiki for Hero-chan (Hanauna), and also added a "See also" section for Hero-chan (Hanauna) and Roto, to aid visibility of the related tags.

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