Speaking of Touhou approvals and selective moderating, for months now I've been mostly auto-hiding Touhou simply because it seems to have a bit of a positive bias to begin with. Also, I haven't been real active in the forums lately, but aside from the occasional weekend off, I've been going through the queue pretty regularly.
As for recruiting new Janitors, I'm not sure if its entirely necessary or not, but it may not be a bad idea, so long as we go through the typical quiz / test janitor phase. It'd be bad to promote someone who was too liberal with approvals though.
Oh yes I'm by no means advocating skipping the test janitor phase, adding a couple test janitors so that we can keep an eye on their approvals. There is no reason why we would just appoint full-on janitors with this system in place.
I meant that it shouldn't be necessary to need to appeal images that are of unquestionable quality. I uploaded some that I thought were pretty good and still "fell through the cracks":
I understand there are cracks, but they gotta be some huge damn cracks for many posts like these to fall through IMO, they're not Touhou or schoolgirls, but it's definetely quality art.
Okay, so the approve default plan is a no go due to the chaos it would cause. Still, Glasnost and Roarchu do raise a very valid point, which would be the approval system really isn't as efficient as people would like to believe. So, yeah, I do think Danbooru seriously needs more than a fourteen man teem scouring the site. Or alternatively increasing the approval period to five days or so.
Well considering I can look at the queue at this very moment and you can't, regardless of what you think, you're wrong.
Mass-hide tinfoil conspiracy talk aside, 10 people have pushed the hide button on every image posted 24+ hours ago. This is a fact it cannot be disputed. I have looked at the queue enough times to see that this is happening multiple times a week.
Images do not "fall through the cracks without ever being looked upon" they fail to be up to the standards or interests of the mod looking at them and are not approved. If nothing else I click every single image that passes through the queue, shit and not, so you cannot claim that something was never seen.
they're not Touhou or schoolgirls, but it's definitely quality art.
standards or interests of the mod looking at them
Discrepancy, see? The latter quote says that in order for a picture to be approved, it must meet quality AND interest. It's hardly conspiracy talk if queue-viewer hisself is saying that approvers might hide simply because they're not interested in the subject rather than for quality reasons alone.
Wait, we need more janitors already? It's been what, 6 months since the last batch was added?
Is checking the queue so damn tedious or difficult that people can't do it consistently for long periods of time?
There are 12 pages of status:pending right now, I don't think it's something that a handful of people couldn't handle if each of them spent a few minutes each day going through the new posts.
Hell, even I check these things just for the heck of it, I'd expect people who actually want to be janitors would be more serious about it.
chainedwind said: Discrepancy, see? The latter quote says that in order for a picture to be approved, it must meet quality AND interest. It's hardly conspiracy talk if queue-viewer hisself is saying that approvers might hide simply because they're not interested in the subject rather than for quality reasons alone.
I did not say standards and interests you suck at reading comprehension. I have approved a ton of images that do not fall under my interests in the least and the same goes for other mods I'm sure.
Fred1515 said: Wait, we need more janitors already? It's been what, 6 months since the last batch was added?
People realize how tedious moderation is, get tired of anime, get tired of shit, run out of free time, there's a multitude of reasons to stop.
Yes, you did. I quoted you. And I'll quote you again, with added emphasis:
Images do not "fall through the cracks without ever being looked upon" they fail to be up to the standards or interests of the mod looking at them and are not approved.
As for what your personal modus operandi is, that's not exactly the subject under discussion.
Fred1515 said: Is checking the queue so damn tedious or difficult that people can't do it consistently for long periods of time?
Apparently.
There are 12 pages of status:pending right now, I don't think it's something that a handful of people couldn't handle if each of them spent a few minutes each day going through the new posts.
As was said, people are looking at them. They're just not approving them. For whatever reason.
Primarily, I'd imagine, for lack of interest in the subject material. Thus even if we have 10+ totally active approvers, it's still worth expanding the group because those 10 might not be giving equal attention to all images.
Which is okay in and of itself. Personally, in 419 pages of approvals I've only approved 12 pages of rating:e, virtually all of them are very tame for rating:e, and less than two pages involve a penis. And like half of those are from one doujin, and some of the remainder are things I don't really like but I reapproved because they were flagged as dupes, which is not a valid flagging reason. As for the rest, I'm largely not sure why I approved them, must have been something similar. The most recent one was 10 months ago, at any rate.
So if someone uploads non-softcore straight porn, then I pretty much have never existed as an approver as far as they're concerned. -1 to the count right there.
Therefore, yeah, more approvers can help even if there is a decent number of active approvers. Of course in attempting to broaden the interests of the approver base, I don't mean I want to get people who will approve any shitty porn either. Still has to be good quality and within the TOS.
I also don't mean to say I only approve things from shows I like, of course. But while I'll approve a Final Fantasy picture when I don't care about Final Fantasy, I won't approve bondage or tentacles or whatever regardless of series.
I see, but I think the main conclusion of this isn't really that we need more approvers, it's that we need approvers with more varied tastes (always within quality standards and ToS of course).
Adding more and more approvers every time will make it difficult to check upon them, and more people approving means more mistakes, and more bad stuff slipping through.
I believe that a relatively small, dedicated group of approvers with different tastes and interests is best for the job.
Fred1515 said: Adding more and more approvers every time will make it difficult to check upon them, and more people approving means more mistakes, and more bad stuff slipping through.
Well, we should also be removing janitors who are inactive. (Mods are another story, as they may have other things to do besides approve.) If we do so, the number of approvers won't be nearly as high as it sounds like it is right now. I'd say de-janitor anyone who hasn't approved anything in the last 3 months, personally. If they want to come back, they can reapply.
I believe that a relatively small, dedicated group of approvers with different tastes and interests is best for the job.
Everyone is going to have some fairly major area they're not into. For me it's explicit images, for another it might be anything with heavy focus on males, for another, small breasts, etc. I don't think it's all that important that each individual approver like heaps of different styles and subject matter and series. And finding such a person, reliably, would be difficult.
Predicting "dedication" is also impossible. Since you have to apply to be a janitor, the assumption is that everyone who does so has some level of dedication. But they could disappear the day after being promoted. It's hardly unheard of with promotions to contrib, and it's clearly the case that this is happening with janitors.
So hire on a decent number of people, then cull the inactive ones. At least then we have an accurate count of how many of the 40-some we cite as "having approval powers" are actually using them.
Well this really can't determine if a janitor is really active, when it comes to the current last image approved by our janitors the results were pretty good in my opinion.
Under 3 days: 20 Under a week: 3 Under 2 weeks: 4 Under a month: 2 Under 2 months: 2 Under 3 months: 1 Unknown: 1
FeKa said: We don't need more janitors, we need less shitty pics.
But the problem is plenty of not-shitty pics not being approved.
And we can't control how many shitty images are posted. We can control how many people approve them though.
NWF_Renim said: Well this really can't determine if a janitor is really active, when it comes to the current last image approved by our janitors the results were pretty good in my opinion.
Under 3 days: 20 ...
That is better than I expected, but as you note, we still don't know just how active they are. At the very least it's obvious a lot is being missed.
From a discussion on the subject awhile back I wanted to bring up a point.
It was mentioned that some people go over just the thumbnails and only expand the image if they deem it worth looking at closer. While it obviously doesn't apply to everyone going by this discussion, is it potentially not a problem in itself?
Some images really don't look good as a thumbnail and could be getting passed up by someone interested in the content but picky about quality (who is also into streamlining the process).
I have no idea if this is a significant factor or not, but it was something I thought interesting.
