Anelaid said: I would like to have it approved, understanding and respecting your tastes, since they are my favorite.
That's not how moderation works, though. And there are other mods. If someone likes them they'll be approved.
Posted under General
Anelaid said: Is there a time that if a post goes unapproved for so long it get automatically deleted? That is the only reason why I am bothered by the long lag.
3 days.
More info at the help pages.
Specifically about:mod queue and about:deletion appeals.
jxh2154 said:
But think of it this way: If someone dislikes something so much they blacklist it, why would they approve it? So I don't think blacklisting itself is a big concern.
Yes, it makes sense. I also wasn't aware of Albert's "approve only of things you personally like" instructions. I sometimes post images where I don't really care about character or series and artist's style does nothing for me, but I can objectively say it's well drawn and someone else might enjoy it.
jxh2154 said:
Well drawn isn't as quite objective as you make it sound, though.
Looking out for these really helped me to bring number of deleted images down compared to my first few weeks on danbooru:
*Distinctive artstyle
*Nice composition
*Good anatomy
*Fine coloring, skilled use of shadowing in black an white/monochrome pictures
*Clever
*Humorous
*No artifacts, blur, bad resizing, other technical problems
*When in doubt - check pivix response to the picture and if artist's other works are already posted on danbooru
When it's really good or bad we all know it. I guess some art in between can cause confusion.
jxh2154 said:
So if that means danbooru isn't a good place for your particular fetish, so be it. Danbooru is not and can not be everything for everyone.
Like I said earlier fetish stuff, especially the hardcore kind, is the only thing I miss on danbooru, but it's not like I MUST! have it NOW! or else! Plenty of other sites for it. I get that danbooru operates with certain guidelines and appeals to certain audience, I don't come around here for yaoi or stuff from western comics either, I know it's just not in the site profile.
jxh2154 said:
Besides... look at the deletion appeal thread. Most of what's getting passed over and appealed is not explicit. Or fetishistic. It's primarily rating:s art, and rating:s makes up the majority of this site to begin with.
Deletion appeal thread isn't good representation of deleted pictures. Here's a story and it's true: I was checking image I thought fit danbooru with "find similar" and sure enough it was there, but to my surprise unapproved. I went to user's profile, checked "deleted" gallery and found many explicit images I thought were just fine in quality. Another check of his/her forum activity revealed he never posted in deletion appeal thread (or any other).
Overall I think mods and janitors do good job now. I browse pending list regularly and there's rarely anything of interest on last few pages. Post moderation is good for the site - I've been going through posts from 3-2 years ago and difference in quality of pictures is HUGE. Some pages are 50% of barely ok and 50% of terrible (I mean lowres cellphone photos of mediocre chibi sketches kind of terrible). Meanwhile more recent posts are mix of nice and great with occasional bad apple (I could say something about touhou, but I post enough of it to be part of the problem, heh).
Updated
"
*looks*
The images seem fine, in general, but I don't like Yukkuri, so I don't approve images which are nothing but Yukkuri.
*shrugs*"
I would like something that is a bit more fair then this at least. I would prefer subjectivity in terms of quality not taste. Otherwise, in cases like I quoted above, there is an inherent flaw in the system if it becomes a matter of taste.
just wondering, have any of you approvers ever seen a great picture, just not one that you liked, and skipped over it because it just wasn't your thing? I'm making it sound kinda bad, but I'm just wondering to what extent do you guys ignore quality posts of things that don't interest you
Updated
Roarchu said: just wondering, have any of you approvers ever seen a great picture, just not one that you liked, and skipped over it because it just wasn't your thing?
Of course. And the reverse as well (I've approved things I'm not interested in). Depends how "not my thing" it is. I'm more discerning in a "level of explicitness" sense, not a "level of interest in the copyright" sense. There are all different meanings of "interests" at work in this discussion.
Also note that I'm honestly less likely to think an image is "great" if I don't approve of the subject matter, so again, be careful with citing an objective concept of quality.
Look, moderation is not democratic or objective or unbiased. It is, in large part, a deliberate imposition of our tastes on everyone else. And while that idea probably horrifies and offends some people, I personally don't think it's anything to hide or be ashamed of. I certainly don't feel like it's a bad thing to admit. Or that it even needs to be "admitted", which implies it was hidden or denied at some point.
It's just what danbooru is, and it shapes the overall culture of the site. Far from being something we should change, I'd say it's our best asset. Even if it leave some people with drastically different tastes feeling left out. It's nothing personal, honestly.
And really, in all of this it should be acknowledged that there's still an enormous variety of content on this site. Staggeringly, really. And that there are surely some approvers who do seek to be as objective and unbiased as possible, putting aside their personal interests completely - if so, that's fine too. As long as they're not approving TOS-violating shit, they're doing their job just fine. But I don't think it's necessary or even desirable for every approver to approach moderation that way.
...But didn't I start out saying we need more approvers to approve more images? =P This whole discussion is, while interesting, somewhat tangential to the main point. I want more images approved, not less. But not so many that we compromise what's made danbooru good (in my opinion) either.
Anelaid said:
I'm not sure if I am being offensive or breaking some rules, but I don't see whats wrong with what I am saying.
Think of it this way:
User posts images they like -> Mod subjective (do I like it?) -> Mod "objective" (does it look like crap?) -> approved/disapproved.
Approvals are effectively subjective and up to the mods discretion. While this does lead to some problems (if no one likes ladyboys as an example), it is the system in place.
I think it is agreed that there needs to more janitors with a wider range of tastes to better cover some more niche areas, the mod queue will first and foremost always be subjective.
jxh2154 said:
...But didn't I start out saying we need more approvers to approve more images? =P This whole discussion is, while interesting, somewhat tangential to the main point. I want more images approved, not less. But not so many that we compromise what's made danbooru good (in my opinion) either.
Honestly I don't see that as a really big issue. What I mean by that is that you will not get far more crap approved.
I suspect generally the mods/janitors have a feeling for who is posting good stuff and who is posting bad, even factoring in stuff that might not be anyone ball of wax.
Also adding in the "objective" side of things ie quality, you really should only be seeing more varied content in general. That I think would be good for the site although if there are areas that are generally frowned upon atm (not approved) but not in the TOS it might be good to update it before you add more janitors using some of the suggestions here.
Lastly what is really needed I think are a dedicated unapprove team to start going over all the old images a little bit at a time and remove the stuff that falls below the current line.
Obviously this would be a huge undertaking and likely it would be best if more then one person was required to remove an image (say three people) once flagged.
I suspect the burnout rate would be monstrous but it's only 630k images...
Scarlet200% said: I think would be good for the site although if there are areas that are generally frowned upon atm (not approved) but not in the TOS it might be good to update it before you add more janitors using some of the suggestions here.
Too much of what is in that gray area of "not strictly a TOS violation but unlikely to get approved" is, well, too gray to be codified in a TOS clause. Your desire seems sensible but in practice being in the TOS means a hard ban - and that's just too black/white for most gray area content.
Lastly what is really needed I think are a dedicated unapprove team to start going over all the old images a little bit at a time and remove the stuff that falls below the current line.
Impractical and a bit unfair; rules and standards have changed over the years. While we've revoked the grandfather clause in the case of TOS violations and have deleted some old stuff with that, by and large there's little to gain from a sudden mass purge of site-relevant, non-TOS violating material. Certainly not enough to justify the time, effort, arguments and frustrations that would be expended.
Anelaid said:
I would prefer subjectivity in terms of quality not taste.
What you're asking is beyond human capability - or logical capability, for that matter.
"Quality" is, itself, a term based on subjectivity.
What is and is not agreeable is a matter of taste. "Quality" is a pretty word for "how many criteria of my subjective judgment are fulfilled by this picture", thus, although you may think having "standards of quality" introduces objectivity into the equation, it's a mere illusion - the criteria themselves are still subjective at some level.
Think of it in different terms. The head of a brewery says "Good beer must be bold, bitter, dark, thick, and keep a nice, foamy head." By those criteria, his prize imperial stout brew is a very good beer, indeed - but not in the eyes of someone who prefers a smooth, summery, slightly fruity amber ale.
It's a matter of taste, you see.
Bottom line: Don't ask for objectivity beyond what's stated in the Terms of Service and uploading guidelines.
jxh2154 said:
a lot of stuff
I don't think there's anything wrong with the way it works either. But I don't think ignoring great quality posts just because it doesn't interest you is a good idea, I don't think it's a problem though, since janitors seem to not ignore them anyway (the really good ones). However, approving crappy touhou pics for example, is not alright (not implying I have a solution)
also, I think this site could do even better without overloading it with pictures like this post #707789. Honestly, this is the kind of image that annoys me the most. There's nothing special about it, actually this kind of picture is really uncreative and blunt IMO, not to mention we already have loads upon loads of them. What do you guys think of this?