Pool #5432 Discussion - "Rule 63"

Posted under General

The debate's cluttering up the Pointless Pools thread so let's move it here.

jjj14 said:
Holy shit, why do people keep bringing up pool #5432 as pointless? And "the genderswaps in the pool right now are not unusual/unlikely enough" isn't a good reason. That's like if you said "delete pool #2020, because the pics in it aren't very elegant at all" or "delete pool #660 because the pics aren't nostalgia-inducing". The contents of pools can always be changed. Address the indended theme of the pool, rather than its current contents.

S1eth said:
The images not being unlikely enough isn't even the point. The point is: EVERY genderswap is unlikely.

jjj14 said:
Maybe "unlikely" isn't the right word to use then. What if we say "the rarest genderswaps"?

Kikimaru said:
No, that doesn't work either.
A character having only 1 genderswap image doesn't make it "rare".

Rampardos said:
How did you come to that conclusion? If a character has only been genderswapped once that is by definition an uncommon genderswap.

Kikimaru said:
Uncommon on Danbooru is not the same as uncommon on the internet.

jjj14 said:
The point is this: the pool groups together genderswaps that are not usually drawn. Without the pool, if you wanted genderswaps but not the common ones, you'd have to search genderswap -touhou -vocaloid -hetalia -/shny -ranma_1/2 -msmm -naruto -fate_(series) etc, etc, etc...

Rampardos said:
I don't know why you're trying to make a distinction between Danbooru and the rest of the internet. I highly doubt there would be a disparity between the two that would actually cause a problem that can't be fixed by common sense.

The point of the pool is to group genderswaps that aren't seen very often. Whether that's because the chances of it happening is slim or the quantity of pictures that exist are low is irrelevant. The only significant difference is that one is subjective and the other isn't. Therefor, "uncommon" is easier to use for Danbooru's purposes.

Arrei said:
But genderswaps are so widespread, to the point of having its own internet rule, that pretty much any series would end up with a genderswapped character at some point, wouldn't they? All the pool would end up accomplishing is pooling together bunches of unrelated series, since then pretty much any lesser-known series would find its way into it. It'd be like creating a pool for shrine maidens or maids that aren't from a major series.

You could simply search for genderswap plus the specific character or series, since none of them are related to any others that would be in the pool in any way.

jjj14 said:
The point is that they are genderswaps that you wouldn't think to search for because they are so uncommon/rare/whatever. That's how they are related. It's like pool #730, pool #1339, and pool #4191: You can't seriously say "Just search rating:e plus whatever" or "Just search crossover plus whatever" or "Just search personification plus whatever".

Pyrolight said:
A objective solution of the rule 63 vs genderswap would be thus:

If there is a single example (excluding brand new series) it is rule 63.

Once there are two or more examples (unless by the same artist) it becomes a genderswap.

Unapproved images should count as well.

Arrei said:
I get the idea, pooling them on that "unexpected" quality.

But the hangup seems to be that this genderswap pool applies to "unexpectedness" differently than those situations. Rule 34 applies to extremely weird porn to random objects that you'd never think someone could even fetishize. Unlikely Crossovers applies to cases where two random completely unrelated properties are crossed. Personifications applies to turning random objects into people that you wouldn't expect anyone to do. They operate on the randomness and weirdness of the material.

Genderswaps in one series, however, aren't any more unlikely or random than a genderswap in another. Given enough popularity a series will undoubtedly get genderswaps done of some of the characters. As a theme, the amount of swap art is typically tied to how widespread the series is or how popular the character is. It then seems less like a pooling of really "unlikely" swaps than a simple pooling of series or characters that don't receive much fanart to begin with, leading to a drought of genderswap art. Because genderswapping is a mere theme you could argue the same point to say anything else deserves its own pool, "This character is rarely depicted as a futa so we should have 'The Most Unlikely Futanaris'", or "This character is never depicted as a child so we should have 'The Most Unlikely Age Regressions'".

(Incidentally, for characters that do receive a lot more fanart and still end up in that pool, it seems to be pretty poorly kept. The very first picture features a male C.C. that isn't even the first of the ones we have on Danbooru.)

However, I would imagine the pool is not without its own merit. In spirit with the other three "unlikely" pools, I'm sure it could become a pool for genderswaps that are just plain weird. (things like post #726728 comes to mind, which incidentally isn't actually tagged genderswap but could be counted as one due to its usual ..."gender".) Things like mostly asexual characters that are nonetheless usually referred to as one gender, depicted as the opposite. Like say... a genderswapped Optimus Prime or something, or if someone did a female "true form" Diglett. In addition, swaps of unexpected real life figures like post #754849 already in the pool fit under the same spirit of "weird and random".

To summarize my last response, I would suggest retooling the pool to collect weird genderswaps rather than simply uncommon ones, on the grounds that being uncommon is more tied to the amount of fanart something gets rather than how unexpected it really is.

Updated by jxh2154

Arrei said:
It then seems less like a pooling of really "unlikely" swaps than a simple pooling of series or characters that don't receive much fanart to begin with, leading to a drought of genderswap art.

I guess I never thought of it like that.

Anelaid said:
+1 for deletion

We have a tag, maybe a pool for characters you don't expect to be genderswapped or along those lines might be better, if anything.

...That's basically what the pool is.

jjj14 said:
...That's basically what the pool is.

Or what it tries to do and fails, really.

Unless we were to rework its criteria.

But that's a lot of votes for outright deletion rather than fixing it.